Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 20:43:30 -0700
From: tubadave
Subject: Re: [CB] [CB Digest]
Hello folks.
On the subject of wooden instrument crack "filler & repair"
glue materials:
I interned in cabinet making back in 1979. Started my own
cabinet/furniture shop in 1981 & operated that business until 1992.
To this day I still accept stringed & other WOOD instrument
repairs. The odd thing is that I am more of a wind-instrument player,
Owner & have come in contact with many wind instruments over the
years. The MOST important part of repairing a Bassoon, clarinet, oboe,
recorder, flute is cleaning the crack of ALL contamination before ever
thinking of applying ANY product to the offending crack. I prefer
warmed alcohol pressurized into the crack. once cleaning has been
completed, exposed clean non contaminated wood must be exhibited. glue
may be applied provided no wood had to be removed in the cleaning
process. before gluing has begun though I suggest blowing air into a
balloon which has been placed inside the instrument as a means of
controlling the glue material from escaping INSIDE the instrument. the
balloon idea works best on bass instruments. I understand that ONE
historical means of closing cracks as a temporary measure was to place
wax into the crack. If this has been done, there is NO amount of
cleaning that will render suitable wood fibers for a proper glue job.
this wax type of repair will require the removal of some wood from the
crack area in order to allow the strong adhesion of ANY glue material.
Afterward, when all cleanup has been completed, Blackwood, ebony
& many rosewood instruments may be color matched using a "sharpie"
permanent marker.
This is JUST an rough verbal outline of a process that takes
great care & attention. Hope it has helped.
Tubadave
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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 12:13:24 +0200
From: Terje Lerstad
Subject: Re: [CB] [CB Digest]
My 1983 paperclip extended to C can also be taken apart, and I
once lost the nut, but it was easy to get a new from France.
I think the units are metric, but I am not able to find any
other nut fitting, so it must be some strange dimension. If you lose
it, the only solution would be to put in a new (slightly smaller) screw.
Terje Lerstad, Norway
John Kilpatrick wrote:
>Leblanc BBb paperclip - the older sort that comes apart in
the middle -
>Can anyone tell me what the thread is for the nut that holds
the two halves
>together? I'm always afraid I'll lose it, one day.
>My guess is UNC #4, but that's not easy to check or obtain
this side of the
>pond - not one item from my box of old nuts and bolts
matches.
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From: "Lelia Loban"
Subject: [CB] Gorilla Glue (or equivalent) on oboes
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 07:41:32 -0400
Eric in MN wrote,
>The topic of cracks in head joints of oboes and
>how to repair them (I understand virtually impossible)
>was approached by someone who works with wood
>(read: carpenter) with the idea of putting a product
>called "Gorilla Glue" on/in the crack. The benefit of
>this glue is that it expands (I'm guessing ont to the tune
>of 3500psi or something ridiculous like that!).
>
>I'm curious if this is a viable option or not.
I use Gorilla Glue in repairing old instrument cases.
There are several other brand names of similar gap-filling
adhesives. These are very strong glues that expand a great deal,
and work quite well if I need to tighten up an old case lid that's
loose because of minor edge rot or because mice have gnawed into it,
for instance. Also, if screws or rivets have loosened because
some are missing and the extra sideways stress on the other ones has
ground out the holes in the wood too much, but not enough to demand
larger hardware, then a dab of Gorilla Glue on the screws before
reinserting them can set them tightly.
I wouldn't use Gorilla Glue on an instrument, though, because
the amount the glue expands is hard to predict, and sometimes doesn't
happen until hours after the glue is applied. Strange
stuff. If it expands lumpily into the bore, it's hard to sand
down in there. This glue dries brown and would make a repair look
obvious if the instrument is black wood.
Chuck Guzis wrote,
>>If this were my instrument, I'd give the nice folks at
>>Ferree's Tools a call. This is an
instrument-repair
>>supply house; they're helpful and they'll sell retail to
>>non-professinals (and they take credit cards).
>>
>>Here's their web site:
>>
Yes. I like this company. Ferree's sells the "Hot
Stuff Glue and Grenadilla Chip Kit" for filling cracks in black, wooden
instruments. Hot Stuff is a cyanoacrylate glue that is similar to
Super Glue, but formulated to soak completely into the grenadilla chips
(fine sawdust). The catalogue has instructions. I repaired
a chipped clarinet tenon with Hot Stuff. The appearance blends so
well that I can't even find the repair now! This is an Eb
clarinet that I haven't played much, but so far, the repair has held.
Ferree's also sells an epoxy glue with a solvent, as Jet Magic,
which is black for clarinets and oboes, and Clear Magic, for fiberglass
sousaphones and bassoons. I bought some but haven't tried it
yet. The literature says it won't rot and "resists oil, water and
acids. It can be tapped, drilled or sanded."
For plastic instruments, there's "Jet Black Shellac Sticks,"
best applied with a "Crack Slick Spatula," a simple brass iron with a
curve on one side and a comfortable wooden handle, for reaching into
the bore and smoothing out the shellac. I cleaned up some minor
damage to student clarinets with this stuff, and smoothed the shellac
with a flat-headed screwdriver the first couple of times I used it, but
the spatula works better. Though I've never replaced a tenon,
Ferree's sells a special shellac spatula for that job, too.
Another product I haven't tried is "Weld-On ABS Glue," for broken
sockets.
For anybody who salvages grubby old garage sale and flea market
instruments, the Ferree's catalogue is a must.
Lelia Loban
America can do better: Kerry and Edwards in 2004!
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Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 08:46:30 -0400
Subject: [CB] Heckelphone/Con-O-Sax
From: Ron Follas
I remeber seeing a poster of all the Conn instruments in the
late 1950's. Included were a bass sax and a Conn-O-Sax. While I own a
bass sax, I have never seen a Conn-O-Sax (live) and wish I could be in
New York to join you. Hope all goes well.
In your e-amil you stated:
>
> The Conn-O-Sax: an American Answer to the Heckelphone
> Paul Cohen, Conn-O-Sax
> Selections to be announced
The Conn-O-Sax may look like a Heckelphone but it is in the key
of F and has a slightly larger range than an English horn.
Wouldn't that make it "the American answer to the English Horn"?
I don't think there were any American made English horns until recently.
Ron Follas
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From: "Glen Sargent"
Subject: [CB] gorilla glue/cracks
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 08:48:33 -0400
While I mostly lurk on this forum, I have been a repair tech for
25 years, and other repair shops from all over the US send me cracks to
deal with because my work has never yet reopened, and it is practically
invisible when done. I strongly advise against any glue said to
expand to fill - any more expansion could open the crack even
further! The object when repairing a crack is three-fold: first,
stabilize the wood so it doesn't want to crack any further; second,
reinforce with either pins or carbon fiber bands; third, fill and
refinish. I use ground up grenadilla dust saturated with a super
thin CA glue for a filler - when done right it blends almost perfectly,
just a bit shinier than the surrounding wood, and seals
flawlessly. This is not a job for the inexperienced - very easy
to destroy a perfectly salvageable horn with bad crack
repair. I welcome any questions you might have - this isn't
rocket science, but a lot of practice helps!
Glen Sargent
NK Music Co.
Maine
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 08:16:24 -0500
From: jim
Subject: Re: [CB] gorilla glue/cracks
> This is not a job for the inexperienced - very easy to
destroy a
> perfectly salvageable horn with bad crack repair.
Mr. Bean fixed Whistler's Mother, I don't see why I can't jump
right in with a mere oboe...
Jim
***End of Contrabass Digest***