Contrabass Digest

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2001-09-02

 
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 20:05:00 -0500
From: Richard Fenno
Subject: Re: [CB] [CB Digest]

on 9/1/01 5:45 PM, List Server wrote:

> While some of that difference is probably due to the bore, the
> greatest difference is probably attributable to the mouthpiece
> design.  Sax mpcs used for orchestral work (and old big band work)
> have fairly round chambers, good for providing the type of timbre the
> players were looking for.  Later players wanted a more biting sound
> (perhaps to compete with the trombones and trumpets?), and started
> experimenting with mpc design.  Lowering the chamber height and angle
> accentuates the higher partials in the timbre, resulting in a
> brighter (sometimes raucous) sound.  You can hear the same sax played
> in classical and jazz venues, with a wide difference in timbre -
> they're just probably using different mouthpieces (and reeds, and
> possibly ligatures too).
>
> Grant
 

All these are factors. There are very rare players who can use the same
setup in wholly different settings, like Bill Trimble. But most of us
mortals have several setups, depending on if we're in a pit band, orchestra,
playing lead alto in a big band, or doing a 4 pc horn section in a rock
band. Generally speaking for me, the larger the ensemble the rounder my mpc
chamber seems to get. Your results may vary . . .

RF

---------------------------------------------------------

From: Heliconman
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 01:08:50 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Bell Direction

In a message dated 9/1/01 10:19:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, go_oaw writes:
 

>     My experience of bell up vs bell front is
>     that the straight up bell permits me to hear myself
>     much better than the bell front.  The location
>     of the ears relative to the horn at the small
>     distances involved for the player can be crucial.
>
>     I believe that this difference in hearing explains
>     the almost universal preference for the straight
>     bell.

One can hear himself better with a bell up configuration, but his sound is
dispersed toward the ceiling or sky. Sousa suggested the sousaphone with the
original bell up or "raincatcher" configuration to lessen the volume of the
tuba section by dispersing sound upward so to better hear the woodwinds,
newly accepted in concert bands, where previous to Patrick Gilmore, concert
bands had been more akin to British style brass bands. The short style
cornets became popular because you could indeed hear oneself better, even
though the sound is still dispersed in the same direction. Perhaps this idea
may also be the reason for the curved saxophones being preferred over the
straight ones!
 

---------------------------------------------------------

From: MVinquist
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 10:41:32 EDT
Subject: [CB] Value of Haynes Silver Clarinet

Several Haynes clarinets have come up on eBay over the last few years.
Depending on condition, they have gone for between $1,000 and $2,000.  There
is said to be a doctor in Michigan who collects them, but I've never been
able to find out anything about him.  I think around 1,000 were made.

I played one at Charlie Ponte's music store many years ago.  It had the
marvelous Haynes workmanship and was a pleasure to see and hold.  It had a
double-wall design, with the outside diameter slightly smaller than a wood
instrument to leave room for rims for the holes.  There was a small hole (the
size of a pencil lead) inside each socket and the end of each tenon, which
you could blow through to warm up the air inside.  That didn't seem to make
much difference, and I think the bacteria from your breath would make it
smell sour pretty quickly.

Charlie told me it was made on the Selmer design, and it felt and played that
way, with what I at least find to be the typical Selmer glare in the sound.
Also, the left little finger keys for low E and low F# were shorter than
average.  I have unequal-length fingers, so this bothered me.

In sum, a lot better than the typical metal clarinet, and definitely rare and
collectible, but not as valuable as a Haynes flute from that era, and not
something I'd want to play for a living.

Best regards.

Ken Shaw
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 12:44:47 -0400
From: Edward Branham
Subject: Re: [CB] Value of Haynes Silver Clarinet
 
 

MVinquist wrote:
> Several Haynes clarinets have come up on eBay over the last few years.
> Depending on condition, they have gone for between $1,000 and $2,000.  There
> is said to be a doctor in Michigan who collects them, but I've never been
> able to find out anything about him.  I think around 1,000 were made.

According to the Haynes factory, 100 total were made of both Bb and A persuasions.
I have seen two sales in the past year, one in A that went for $4,000 and one in Bb that
went for $3,800.    Both were in mint condition.

> I played one at Charlie Ponte's music store many years ago.  It had the
> marvelous Haynes workmanship and was a pleasure to see and hold.  It had a
> double-wall design, with the outside diameter slightly smaller than a wood
> instrument to leave room for rims for the holes.  There was a small hole (the
> size of a pencil lead) inside each socket and the end of each tenon, which
> you could blow through to warm up the air inside.

You may have actually played a Selmer double walled.  The Haynes warm air
entry and exit are not designed like that.  First, there is no socket & tennon between
the upper and lower stacks - one piece between the removeable barrel and bell.  The
upper end is warm air entry is on the outside - about 1.5 inches toward the mouthpiece
from the throat A tone hole.  It has a removeable cap and is more the size of a pencil
eraser.  The bottom of the lower section has a sliding ring that has a 3/4 inch slot in it,
which covers (or opens) another slot to allow the air to exit.   Anyone want to volunteer
some web site space for posting photos?

> That didn't seem to make
> much difference, and I think the bacteria from your breath would make it
> smell sour pretty quickly.

Mine never has.

> Charlie told me it was made on the Selmer design, and it felt and played that
> way, with what I at least find to be the typical Selmer glare in the sound.

As always, mouthpiece, reed, etc. can either reduce or enhance any 'glare'
that may be in the sound.  Mine plays an incredibly warm and rich tone.  I
work (and work, and work) to get the clarion register more consistent in
tone with the chalmeau register.

> Also, the left little finger keys for low E and low F# were shorter than
> average.  I have unequal-length fingers, so this bothered me.

The RH keys are smaller than my R13, but not closer.  I have had no trouble
switching between the two instruments.

> In sum, a lot better than the typical metal clarinet, and definitely rare and
> collectible, but not as valuable as a Haynes flute from that era, and not
> something I'd want to play for a living.

My opinon rates the instrument a bit better overall than Ken's does.

> Best regards.
>
> Ken Shaw

For what it's worth ...

Edward Branham

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