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Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:11:07 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] [CB Digest]

David F. inquires:
>When was the Tarogato invented? Were there other members of
>the family? maybe Bari-Taro, or Tenor. Even sopranino. I've
>never seen or heard of anything other than the soprano.
>Who invented it? Was it a slide-over (mind-meld) from france
>mid 1800's or did it pre-date Sax?

The tarogato was originally a shawm-like Hungarian folk instrument,
played with a double reed.  It was redesigned with "modern" keywork
(a simple system) a single-reed mouthpiece by Schunda (Budapest) in
the mid-1890s.  As far as I know, the Bb soprano version is the only
size made, but I imagine that a bass or contrabass version would be
pretty interesting :-)

The modern tarogato did not antedate Sax (the saxophone dates back to
around 1840), and in fact is probably Schunda's combination of
soprano saxophone with ancient folk instrument.

>Bass Oboe's sound different than a bassoon. What is a good
>example of a recorded (available) musical piece that has
>both Bass Oboe AND Bassoon?

The first that comes to mind is "The Planets" by Holst.  The "Saturn"
movement has a nice bass oboe solo.

>Have there been any attempts at making wooden sarrusophones?

Not that I've heard of...


Grant Green         
Professional Fool  ->

Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:22:47 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] Bass & Contra Bass Saxophones

>The new Selmers and Keilworths are around the $20,000 & $16,000 price range
>respectively. (Suggested retail price.) The waiting time is usually probably
>around the 6 - 12 month period. To my knowledge, the only company to make a
>traditionally shaped contrabass is Orsi from Italy. I believe that they also
>make LA Sax's bass. I know that the LA Sax site has a mortgage calculator
>for the contras. I vaguely remember something close to $40,000. The new

The list price for the LA Sax contra is now US$39K
(, with the bass going for
US$18K.  I don't know if you can get these at discounted prices, like
one can for so many other instruments.  Both are made for LA Sax by
Orsi (, as are the sopraninos (both
straight and curved models).


Grant Green        
Professional Fool  ->

From: MVinquist
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 05:58:34 EDT
Subject: [CB] Bass Sax Reeds

Spencer says: "You can get contra clarinet reeds to use for a bass sax."

That's mostly right.  Actually, I use Vandoren bass sax reeds on my Selmer Eb
contra-alto clarinet mouthpiece, and the same ones fit on my Selmer BBb
contrabass clarinet mouthpiece.  The two mouthpieces are identical on the
outside, except for tenon size.

Rico makes orange-box contra-alto reeds, which I haven't tried.  I quit using
what were then brown-box Ricos in 1958, when I started using Vandoren on
everything.  I assume the Rico contra-alto reeds the same size as bass sax
reeds, but the cane has always been so awful (only Vibrators were worse) that
I've never gone back.

Note that the Vandoren contrabass clarinet reeds are considerably wider --
too wide for bass sax.  They fit only the older Leblanc BBb contrabass
clarinet mouthpieces (and maybe contrabass sax).

I didn't hit Powerball, so a contrabass sax remains a dream for now.

Best regards.

Ken Shaw

Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:02:16 -0400
From: Topper
Subject: Re: [CB] South Dakota

Gigs are available by calliong the Fort Randall Casino ask for Eddie
Red Lightening and get an address to send material... probably looing
for more pop and country with a bit of funk and 50-60 oldies...

but ask about contacting the YST to see if there is need ++ AND THERE
IS ++ for some guest an even permanent music teachers on all levels
Marty Indian School is a great place to teach... fine folks...

While your there in SD go North to Eagle Butte (Green Grass
Community) and ask for Vivian High Elk she is a community leader of
sorts.. if you are interested in teaching inst music she can point
you in the right direction.. It's not easy to get something going but
once one does getting new instruments is a piece of cake... or should
I say frybread

Further North you go Little Eagle and ask for Isaac Dog Eagle and Ben
One Feather... 18 kids commited their own end because of boredom in
They Had NO music program and probably still do not.

Now if you really want to take the plunge from there go back to I90 W
to S before the Hills and to to Pine Ridge.. Ignore the Missions and
go right over to the tribal office around the corner from the fried
chicken place and see if they need a music teacher there..

At 10:01 -0500 8/26/01, Jean Adler wrote:
>I believe the Jolly Green Giant is in LeSeur Minnesota not far from Mankato.
>As per the Corn Palace the fact it is so out of date is part of its let's
>say... charm?  Besides, where else but the Corn Palace can every has-been
>performer play?  Oh wait, I think that's Branson.

From: "Tal Harris"
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:51:10 +0200
Subject: [CB] Clarinet/Sax reeds

From: <MVinquist>

> Spencer says: "You can get contra clarinet reeds to use for a bass sax."
> That's mostly right.  Actually, I use Vandoren bass sax reeds on my Selmer Eb
> contra-alto clarinet mouthpiece, and the same ones fit on my Selmer BBb
> contrabass clarinet mouthpiece.  The two mouthpieces are identical on the
> outside, except for tenon size.

I have a similar case where due to its costs, I gave up my dream to play
bass clarinet and settled for the more modestly-priced alto clarinet
When I received the instrument I was looking for a dark and powerful sound
like that of the bass, but was disappointed to discover a much lighter and
softer timbre. I tried using bass clarinet reeds (Vandoren, 3.5) instead of
alto's (Rico, 4), but the effect was not achieved. Finally (now I'm getting
to my point...), I tried tenor sax reeds (Rico, 3.5) and received a much
deeper, explosive, and richer tone.
It is always good to play around like this, and maybe come about a
surprising new sound for one's instrument.


From: "Helen Kahlke"
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:47:17 -0300
Subject: [CB] Bass & Contra Saxes

Owen you wrote:

I just have a couple more questions: where would you get reeds and
mouthpieces for the bass and contrabass? and lastly, are vintage bass saxes
and especially contrabasses very collectable, what I mean is, are there a
lot of people looking for them?
As far as collectability goes, sure I guess they would be collectable in the
sense that many people would like to own one, but do they have the money?
That's really the question. The contras are definitely collectable, but with
probably less than 20 in the world, they don't come up for sale very often,
and very few people would be inclined to spend as much as they would cost.
The basses are certainly more common, but again, not that many people are
going to spend a lot of money on a horn that has fairly limited use. Finding
parts for these old timers is also a huge problem. You need to have access
to a good tech who could manufacture parts for it.

As far as mouthpieces goes, I couldn't tell you much about contra pieces. I
suspect that you'd have to get something custom-made. Likely Orsi also might
sell you one, but would it work on the old horns? Good chance it wouldn't.
Bass mouthpieces are not uncommon. Leblanc makes them, as does Selmer and
Keilworth I believe. Many bass players use baritone sax mouthpieces. They
usually need to be customized so that they will play in something close to
"in tune". I have a customized baritone piece I use, and also a Bundy bass
sax mouthpiece from about the 30s or 40s. For reeds, you'd use a baritone
reed for the bari piece. Bass sax reeds I've never seen for sale, but some
bass mouthpieces would take a bari reed (mine does).


Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:08:06 -0500
From: Topper
Subject: Re: [CB] s.d.

As a Ihantowan Dakotah (Yankton Sioux) I take offence that you never
paid your taxes to the real property owners ha ha ha (kidding of
course)  Hey talk about transplanted, eh?

hmmmmm let's see... places in SD I don't like:
WINNER, S.D. a looser for me especially when I experience a sunburn.
A VERY unwelcome place..
(whites only in some places) I mean you can feel it and see it from
the inside but you'll rarely see it unless you can experience it from
red eyes... no pun intended..

Flandreau (used to be part of a res but was ceeded by corrupt
paperwork) tollerable but we still get called names. Not being full I
have escaped some of the worse. As the kods grow into adults it seems
the behind the back insults enter. We indins don't just get our ears
to ring but we get the real time recording. Works in reverse too :-)

Places I like - The hills and surrounding area of Blue Cloud Abby and
some  other places at Sisseton/Whapeton

Mahtoh - Desolate little place probably more in ND but it feels like
home to me.
You see there is no South or North Dakota it is actually Indian Land
all.. We only let them put the lines on the map because we knew they
could never fill them in with a stick

Mobridge - if you go over the river past the decoy Sitting Bull
Burial Site and make a left eggs are still .39 per dozen.

At 10:10 AM -0700 8/25/01, David Richoux wrote:
>Jean Adler wrote:
>>  A reason to go to South Dakota.  As a South Dakotan (transplanted to
>>  Minnesota) I take offense.
>Jean, Jean, Jean...
>I have spent many wonderful days in South Dakota - and I have been to
>many of the places you mentioned (and a few you didn't.)
>I was attempting a bit of mid-western humor (I was born in Omaha and
>spent many summers in the general area.)
>BTW, for more SD fun, go to the American Roadside Attractions site ( a
>wonderful listing of all sorts of odd museums and tourist traps all over
>the country.  )
>Dave Richoux

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