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From: Pabstton@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 19:07:18 EDT
Subject: Re: stands
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comHolding the sucker is no problem. It's just that in the live situation I have
to switch between multiple instruments real fast. Nothing more actually. But
at least somewhere to put it while temporarily not in use would be nice. Lots
of stages do not have walls and wall corners where I can lean it. And letting
it hang from my neck while trying to play another instrument is not the most
practical.I've seen a cheese-jazz act with a sax player who had his alto sax sitting in
a playing height stand while playing. And he did not use any other instument
other than one of those Roland MIDI saxes. Now that is lazy. He also used a
wireless mic system. This guy was obviously the victim of effective
musicstore salesperson selling techniques. Or he worked in a musicstore. Oh
yea, and his sax was blue with silver or nickel keys.But really, if anyone knows of a stand that will not interfere with the keys
and rod mechanisms, I'd love to know about it.Dpaten
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 18:12:37 -0500
From: John Howell <John.Howell@vt.edu>
Subject: Small bassoons and other strange animals
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comMy appologies to the list at having started a minor semantics war! Of
course there are several ways to classify the "key" that instruments are
built in, and of course that's exactly the source of the confusion! Let me
explain that I was coming at my question from an historical instrument
point of view.
- No woodwind instruments were written as transposing instruments prior to c. 1750. (Believe that temporarily at least, although I'm sure there were exceptions!)
- Therefore, all instruments were notated at concert pitch (with the obvious exceptions of octave transpositions for the very small and very large instruments), and by the concert pitch convention we would have to say that they were all "in C." But that simply isn't a very useful way of classifying them.
- A more useful way of classifying them was to identify the lowest note produced. But even in the 18th century, woodwinds with extended low ranges existed, so the convention works best when the key of the instrument is identified as the 7-fingers-down note. This is VERY useful for someone who is doubling instruments of different sizes, and even instruments of different families, which is exactly what many Renaissance and Baroque woodwind players did.
- The easy classifications: Instruments "in C" (that is, producing "C" in some octave or other with 7 fingers down) include garklein, soprano, tenor, and greatbass recorders, treble shawm and oboe, tenor shawm, and soprano and tenor krummhorn. Instruments "in F" include sopranino, alto, bass, and contrabass recorder, alto and bass krummhorn.
- The confusing classifications: Both Renaissance and Baroque flutes are 6-hole instruments, but can be classified usefully by being treated AS IF they had 7 holes. Therefore the Baroque flute and the soprano and tenor Renaissance flutes are "in C without a low C." The Renaissance alto and bass flutes are "in F wihtout a low F." The standard cornetto is referred to as being "in A," but is more properly "in G without a low G." The smaller cornettino, its lowest note a 6-finger D, is "in C without a low C."
- The extended instruments: alto and bass bassoons, dulcians, and ranketts are "in F with an extension to low C or Bb." Soprano and tenor bassoons, dulcians, and ranketts are "in C with an extension to low F or Eb."
- The instruments which overblow the 12th are, quite literally, in two different keys by this naming convention. These include the krummhorn and chalumeaux (which were not overblown, but could have been) and the clarinet family (which was overblown). The convention for the clarinet family is to name the key of the instrument according to the concert pitch of the 7-finger note in the upper, clarion register. The convention for the krummhorn is to name the key of the instrument according to the 7-finger note in the lower, most used register.
- The other thing about Baroque and pre-Baroque music is that it was not transposed, but it was written using the 3 clefs (G, C, and F) moveably on the staff, making a total of 9 clefs. Parts were written in whatever clef best contained the range of the piece without forcing the copyist to use ledger lines. Therefore, if we know the original clefs of a part, we know the size instrument that would have been used (treble or soprano clef for a soprano instrument, alto clef for an alto instrument, tenor clef for a tenor instrument, bass or baritone clef for a bass instrument). Semi-standard instruments used the in-between clefs (i.e. oboe was generally written in treble clef, English horn in alto clef, and oboe d'amore (7-fingered A) in mezzo-soprano clef.
Again, my appologies for causing the mixup. Every response was correct from one particular point of view, but there were at least 3 different points of view being expressed!!John
John & Susie Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:John.Howell@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
---------------------------------------------------------
From: CoolStu67@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 20:34:11 EDT
Subject: Re: stands
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
<<
I've seen a cheese-jazz act with a sax player who had his alto sax sitting in
a playing height stand while playing. And he did not use any other instument
other than one of those Roland MIDI saxes. Now that is lazy. He also used a
wireless mic system. This guy was obviously the victim of effective
musicstore salesperson selling techniques. Or he worked in a musicstore. Oh
yea, and his sax was blue with silver or nickel keys.
>>LOL, that is lazy! Sounds like a LA Sax if it's blue (never have seen any
other color than black and white on non-LA Saxes).
Sorry for the confusion about your stand usage.Stuart
-Sax/Clarinet
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 17:41:31 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: stands
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>I've seen a cheese-jazz act with a sax player who had his alto sax sitting in
>a playing height stand while playing. And he did not use any other instument
>other than one of those Roland MIDI saxes. Now that is lazy. He also used a
>wireless mic system. This guy was obviously the victim of effective
>musicstore salesperson selling techniques. Or he worked in a musicstore. Oh
>yea, and his sax was blue with silver or nickel keys.Or possibly, he had a bad back. With a sprung back, you can't even pick up
an alto, much less hang it around your neck.>But really, if anyone knows of a stand that will not interfere with the keys
>and rod mechanisms, I'd love to know about it.Best I can suggest is to have both the bass and the contra on floor pegs,
and have them leaning into stands. If they're not attached to your neck,
you should be able to grab them off the stands quickly enough...Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------From: Fmmck@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:06:14 EDT
Subject: Re: stands
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIn a message dated 5/27/99 8:42:03 PM, gdgreen@contrabass.com writes:
<< Best I can suggest is to have both the bass and the contra on floor pegs,
and have them leaning into stands. If they're not attached to your neck,
you should be able to grab them off the stands quickly enough...
>>Grant-
A friend has a stand for her ContraBassoon, that appears to work with my
LeBlanc straight BBb Contrabass Clarinet. It has a rubber-lined cup that can
hold the bottom of the bell, with a pair of arms about two and a half feet
higher. The instrument leans into the arms. I understand she had an
additional leg or brace welded to the bottom, to keep it from tipping over.I have been searching various music stores, but haven't found anything like
it. I hadn't considered your point about the floor peg taking too much time
to extend.It seems like there would be a demand for a good Contra Bass/Alto stand, but
perhaps not enough to justify the cost of development.Fred McKenzie
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 00:27:11 -0400
From: Jim Lande & Joyce Mason <lande@erols.com>
Subject: URLs
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comGrant
Thanks for the contra-bassoon URL. Been there, lost the bookmark.
Since you are looking up URLs in your (I suspect) vast file, I have lost
the site with instructions for making a tuba. This was a wonderfully
interesting site that all bassoholics should visit. The construction
process, however, is not for the faint of heart. As a byproduct, you
can also turn your backyard into a toxic waste site.
Of course, if anyone else can post this before Grant, perhaps we
could give him a break from his duties as music maven.
regards
jim lande
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:38:47 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: stands
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>A friend has a stand for her ContraBassoon, that appears to work with my
>LeBlanc straight BBb Contrabass Clarinet. It has a rubber-lined cup that can
>hold the bottom of the bell, with a pair of arms about two and a half feet
>higher. The instrument leans into the arms. I understand she had an
>additional leg or brace welded to the bottom, to keep it from tipping over.Sounds like the Fox contrabassoon stand. I use one for my contrabass
sarrusophone.>It seems like there would be a demand for a good Contra Bass/Alto stand, but
>perhaps not enough to justify the cost of development.Well, Leblanc at least *used to* make a stand for the curved
contrabass/alto. This is the stand that I used, ordered directly from
Leblanc. It can be raised high enough to support the instrument in
position to play while standing, but I keep it just high enough that the
floor peg clears the floor when the instrument is on the stand.Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:41:35 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: URLs
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>interesting site that all bassoholics should visit. The construction
>process, however, is not for the faint of heart. As a byproduct, you
>can also turn your backyard into a toxic waste site.Actually, I understand that you can replace the lead with something less
toxic. Shellac? Lead was certainly the traditional substance used in pipe
bending, but I think there are some less-toxic modern alternatives.Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:20:06 -0700
Subject: Re: URLs
From: mgrogg@juno.com
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comAt least among natural horn builders, the substance in vogue is the lead
free solder sold at your local home building center. It is lowcost,
melts at a reasonable temperature, and fairly non toxic. I use it for
filling tubes to bend when making crooks for my horn conversions, melts
easily on a campstove on my back porch.Michael Grogg
>>interesting site that all bassoholics should visit. The construction
>>process, however, is not for the faint of heart. As a byproduct,
>you can also turn your backyard into a toxic waste site.
>
>Actually, I understand that you can replace the lead with something
>less toxic. Shellac? Lead was certainly the traditional substance used in
>pipe bending, but I think there are some less-toxic modern alternatives.
>
>Grant___________________________________________________________________
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