Contrabass Digest

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1999-05-27

 
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:46:42 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Subcontrabassoon?
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

>Subcontrabassoons are rare but a sufficient duplicate can be built by
>joining the tubing from several different insruments, removing the keys
>and filling the holes. Two contrabassoons joined to one instrument
>would be a subcontrbabassoon. UNless you want to go to Germany and
>spend thousands of dollars on one.
>
>-Adam

There's a problem with that theory: the contrabassoon has a conical bore,
like a saxophone.  Each length of tubing is wider at one end than at the
other end.  How would you propose to join them?

I've heard of something like that being done with a pair of contrabass
clarinets (and should have tried it myself, when I had two in my
possession), but it doesn't result in a particularly playable instrument.

Rather than go to Germany, why not build one yourself?  There is a web page
by a man who built his own contrabassoon out of fiberglass...

Grant

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green            gdgreen@contrabass.com
                    http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------

From: Ranchu242@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:47:29 EDT
Subject: Re: Subcontrabassoon?
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

In a message dated 5/26/99 5:46:28 PM Central Daylight Time,
gdgreen@contrabass.com writes:

<< There is a web page
 by a man who built his own contrabassoon out of fiberglass...
  >>

What might that URL be?

Roger
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:58:04 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Contrabass clarinet FS
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

Here's today's:

Leblanc model 340 Bb contrabass clarinet, at
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=109503069  The
seller states that this is a low C model from the '50s, which I think is a
contradiction in terms.  I looks to me like a low D model (perhaps he meant
concert C?), like the one I had originally (that breaks down in the
middle).  Current bid is $500, and the reserve is already met.

There's another bass flute, at
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=109508879, with the
opening bid $2899, which I suspect is the list price for this instrument.
If you look at this page, click on "view seller's other auctions": you'll
see about 30 auctions listed, none of which has a single bid...

Enjoy!

Grant

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green            gdgreen@contrabass.com
                    http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 17:13:46 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: DIY contrabassoon
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

><< There is a web page
> by a man who built his own contrabassoon out of fiberglass...
>  >>
>
>What might that URL be?
>
>Roger

Here it is: took me a few minutes to find it...

http://idrs.colorado.edu/publications/TWBassoonist/TWB.V3.1/contrabassoon.html

Enjoy!

Grant
 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green            gdgreen@contrabass.com
                    http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------

From: Pabstton@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:42:22 EDT
Subject: contrahelp
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

I know this is the third in one day. I swear I'll make this the last and get
out of your hair.

I am a sax and bass clarinet player. Last summer I got a contralto clarinet.
However, I've only recently integrated the contra into our music group. After
playing with other instruments, I came to realize that the contra is
seemingly out of tune. So I adjusted the slip part of the neck to match the
other instruments.

Can anyone tell me if this is ok? With my saxes and other clarinets I just
had to adjust the mouthpiece or barrel. However because the intonation of the
contra depends on much more space between keys, adjusting the mpc a few
millimeters has little effect.

Another quick Q about this slip neck joint piece thing- What kind of
lubricant does this thing need. I don't play slide trombone, although I've
alway wanted to. Hey! a slide contraclarinet. now that's an idea...

Thanks for any replies!

DPaten

---------------------------------------------------------

From: Pabstton@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:42:20 EDT
Subject: Re: Subcontrabassoon?
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

Hi There,
I don't know if anyone remembers this- Last summer, I posted a note about the
so-called "octobassophone" or "contrabassophone". I came across it in a book.
I never read many follow-ups about it on the list. As well, shortly
thereafter, I unsubscribed from the list. So it's possible this has already
been discussed. In any event, I don't remember the actual range of this
monster, but it looked like an oversized contrabassoon. The book also
mentioned that it never gained popularity because it was too loud.
Unfortunately, I don't remember the name of the book.

Anyway, I figured this might be interesting for anyone who wonders about the
existance of a subcontrabassoon.

DPaten

---------------------------------------------------------

From: Pabstton@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:42:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Small bassoons
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

I don't think I read the word "tenoroon" from any of the "small
bassoons" mails yet. That is how I always referred to the standard small
bassoon. Is this wrong?

dpaten
---------------------------------------------------------

From: CoolStu67@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:01:42 EDT
Subject: Re: contrahelp
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
<<
 Can anyone tell me if this is ok? With my saxes and other clarinets I just
 had to adjust the mouthpiece or barrel. However because the intonation of the
 contra depends on much more space between keys, adjusting the mpc a few
 millimeters has little effect.
>>

The neck would be the adjusted part, I believe. That is my common practice
with my bass and contrabass clarinet as well.

Stuart
-Sax/Clarinet
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:06:55 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: contrahelp
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

>seemingly out of tune. So I adjusted the slip part of the neck to match the
>other instruments.

The slip part of the neck is essentially the barrel: that's where you're
*supposed* to tune it :-)

>Can anyone tell me if this is ok? With my saxes and other clarinets I just
>had to adjust the mouthpiece or barrel. However because the intonation of the
>contra depends on much more space between keys, adjusting the mpc a few
>millimeters has little effect.

Yes, since the contra has a longer bore, you'll have to move the barrel
farther to get the same effect.

>Another quick Q about this slip neck joint piece thing- What kind of
>lubricant does this thing need. I don't play slide trombone, although I've
>alway wanted to. Hey! a slide contraclarinet. now that's an idea...

Cork grease usually works.  Vaseline would probably work, too.

Enjoy!

Grant

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green            gdgreen@contrabass.com
                    http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------

From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:22:55 EDT
Subject: Re: Percussion instruments
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

In a message dated 5/26/99 6:43:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, oljare@hotmail.com writes:
>  I need to know somewhere i can ask about rare percussion instruments,since i
>  want to find out a couple of things:
>  The biggest/lowest cymbal ever made
>  The biggest/lowest cymbal in common production/use
>  The largest drums (excluding bass drums of any kind)
>  The largest gongs
>  etc.
>  Anybody else here interested in finding out about this?
>
>  Mats Öljare ( oljare@hotmail.com )

While visiting Harvard University Band's BBB-flat tuba recently, I also got to see their 6 foot (diam.)  bass drum "Big Bertha". It rides around on it's own wagon. I believe it was a Ludwig. When a new drum head becomes necessary, they have to ship it to the manufacturer. Whether or not this is the world's biggest, I don't know, but I would think it may be a contender. Also, there were a couple of giant bass drums built for Patrick Gilmore's Peace Jubilees in Boston in 1869 and 1872.
---------------------------------------------------------

From: Fmmck@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:54:00 EDT
Subject: Re: Contrabass clarinet FS
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

In a message dated 5/26/99 7:03:02 PM, gdgreen@contrabass.com writes:

<< There's another bass flute, at
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=109508879, with the
opening bid $2899, which I suspect is the list price for this instrument.
If you look at this page, click on "view seller's other auctions": you'll
see about 30 auctions listed, none of which has a single bid. >>

Grant-

If you search E-Bay for completed auctions of Bass Flutes, you will find that
this flute has been offered at least two previous times.  Both times, the
minimum bid was $2899 and there were no bidders.

Fred McKenzie
---------------------------------------------------------

From: Fmmck@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:09:10 EDT
Subject: Re: Percussion instruments
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

In a message dated 5/26/99 10:23:22 PM, Heliconman@aol.com writes:

<< I also got to see their 6 foot (diam.)  bass drum "Big Bertha". It rides around on it's own wagon. I believe it was a Ludwig. When a new drum head becomes necessary, they have to ship it to the manufacturer. Whether or not this is the world's  biggest, I don't know, but I would think it may be a contender. >>

The University of Florida also has a large Bass Drum, including its own
carriage.  It is billed as "the drum with the biggest boom in Dixie".
Although it is NOT the largest bass drum, is is supposed to be the largest
PLAYABLE bass drum.  (Don't ask me to explain, I'm not a drummer!)

If my memory is correct, I believe Col. Harold Bachman of the University of
Florida, wrote a book about it.  The book also mentioned a larger drum that
was housed at the University of Illinois stadium while the Manhatten Project
was active in the 40s.

Fred McKenzie
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:45:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Small bassoons
From: mgrogg@juno.com
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

>I don't think I read the word "tenoroon" from any of the "small
>bassoons"mails yet. That is how I always referred to the standard
>small  bassoon. Is this wrong?
>
>dpaten

>From what I know of the tenoroon, it was similar in size to the English
horn.  The opening solo in Afternoon of a Faun was supposedly written for
it, and the one recording of a tenoroon I heard had that opening solo on
it.  Due to the scarcity or unpopularity that solo is almost always
played by English horn now.

That is what I know, with all the bassoonophiles on this list, I figured
someone might have the answer.

MG

___________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:31:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Percussion instruments
From: mgrogg@juno.com
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

On Wed, 26 May 1999 23:09:10 EDT Fmmck@aol.com writes:
><< I also got to see their 6 foot (diam.)  bass drum "Big Bertha". It rides around
>on it's own wagon. I believe it was a Ludwig. When a new drum head becomes
....
>The University of Florida also has a large Bass Drum, including its
>own carriage.  It is billed as "the drum with the biggest boom in Dixie".
>Although it is NOT the largest bass drum, is is supposed to be the
>largest  PLAYABLE bass drum.  (Don't ask me to explain, I'm not a drummer!)
>

Purdue University in Layfette Indiana also has one of these monsters that
they roll out for half time shows at home games.

MG

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
---------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Percussion instruments
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:56:12 -0700
From: jazzman <jazzman@bayarea.net>
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

Heliconman@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 5/26/99 6:43:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>oljare@hotmail.com writes:
>>  I need to know somewhere i can ask about rare percussion instruments,since i
>>  want to find out a couple of things:
>>  The biggest/lowest cymbal ever made
>>  The biggest/lowest cymbal in common production/use
>>  The largest drums (excluding bass drums of any kind)
>>  The largest gongs
>>  etc.
>>  Anybody else here interested in finding out about this?
>>
>>  Mats =D6ljare ( oljare@hotmail.com )
>
>While visiting Harvard University Band's BBB-flat tuba recently, I also got
>to see their 6 foot (diam.)  bass drum "Big Bertha". It rides around on it's
>own wagon. I believe it was a Ludwig. When a new drum head becomes necessary,
>they have to ship it to the manufacturer. Whether or not this is the world's
>biggest, I don't know, but I would think it may be a contender.
> Also, there were a couple of giant bass drums built for Patrick Gilmore's
>Peace Jubilees in Boston in 1869 and 1872.

The University of Texas Longhorn Band claims to have the largest bass
drum; it is at least 10' in diameter. That thing is huge!

Syd Polk
jazzman@bayarea.net                http://www.bayarea.net/~jazzman
"Let the music be your light." -- Dave Edwards, KUHF-FM, 1982

---------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Small bassoons
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 21:56:11 -0700
From: jazzman <jazzman@bayarea.net>
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

CoolStu67@aol.com wrote:

> With bass Clef instruments the parts are (usually) written at concert
> pitch, and the player sorts out the fingerings.  If you walk up to a
> bassoon and play a "C" scale using your best saxophone fingerings, you
> will have played a scale in F.
>
>Now you're confusing brass instruments with woodwinds. The brasses are able
>to get their key this way because, anyway, the entire tube length is used.
>This is not the case with woodwinds. As I stated before, woodwinds are
>designed to use the entire tube length and the builder positions the
>holes/keys to make the holes make since! It is purely by coincidence that
>7-fingers on the bassoon plays an F.
>
>Stuart
>-Sax/Clarinet

There are several different meanings for an instrument "in C" or "in F".
For low brass instruments, the term "in Bb" means that the pedal note on
the instrument is a Bb. For transposing instruments, it means that when a
C is played on the instrument, a Bb comes out.

It is also used to apply to the two different fingering schemes on
woodwind instruments. When all three left hand fingers + three right hand
fingers + a pinkie key are put down, instruments that have a "C" based
fingering system play a written C and those that have a "F" based system
play a written F.

Recorders come in both flavors. They came along before somebody figured
out how to move the music around to make life easier for the player.

Flute, oboe, saxophone, and sarrusaphone all have "C" based fingering
systems. Bassoon has a "F" based fingering system. Clarinet has an "F"
based lower register and a "C" based upper register (and an "A" based
altisimmo).

Penny whistles go by a different convention. A penny whistle is in "D"
when all six fingers close holes.
 

Syd Polk
jazzman@bayarea.net                http://www.bayarea.net/~jazzman
"Let the music be your light." -- Dave Edwards, KUHF-FM, 1982

---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 07:38:11 +0200
From: Hans Mons <Hans@hansmons.com>
Subject: RE: Small bassoons
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

At 03:32 PM 5/26/99 -0800, Grant Green wrote:
>I haven't studied medieval and renaissance music enough to know for sure,
>but I *suspect* that dulcian and shawm were all considered
>"non-transposing", like recorders.

This was fully true for dulcians, crumhorns, recorders.  But shawms were a
bit more complicated.  The common soprano shawm sounded d' with 7 fingers
down (I usually call that "in D" :-) ).  The alto shawm sounded g with 7
fingers down.  With alta capella groups (in most cases: soprano shawm, alto
shawm and sackbut or slide trumpet) it was common practice to transpose the
music one step up.  In other words, play the d soprano if it was a c
soprano, and the g alto if it was an f alto.  But if the shawm players were
playing with other instruments, they had to play "at pitch".
The c soprano shawm and the f alto shawm are modern inventions, although
modern, Praetorius writes in 1619 that the alto shawm was in g, but that an
alto in f would be very welcome.
 

Hans Mons

Email: Hans@hansmons.com
Web: http://www.hansmons.com/dulcians/

---------------------------------------------------------

From: Pabstton@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 07:13:04 EDT
Subject: Re: Percussion instruments
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

This probably has not much relevance, but gamelan kettle gongs (the large,
hanging type) produce a nice rumble. And due to their form, they have a very
dominant fundamental tone, which is the case in most of the so-called nipple
gongs. They're usually, however, not larger than a meter or so in diameter.
With some patience, these and gongs in general are also rather easy to make.
I never got around to it, but I always wanted to see how large I could make
one of these.
 
 

---------------------------------------------------------

From: Pabstton@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 07:14:38 EDT
Subject: Re: contrahelp
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

Thank you very much for the help!

dpaten
---------------------------------------------------------

From: "BROCK IMISON" <bimison@hotmail.com>
Subject: subcontra---continued..
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 05:37:00 PDT
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

I realise that the subcontrabassoon as a topic has been dealt with many
times on the list, so this is for any left over believers out there---like
me. The guy (Cerveny) responsible for the construction  of this instrument
experimented with about 40 different inventions of bass winds during his
life. In 1868 he made a contra with lowest note subcontra-G. After this, two
more contras were made, one in E flat, the other in B flat---both with 15
keys. I don't know the lowset tones of these instruments. It was in 1873
that the subcontra was constructed. Why would this man construct a subcontra
with the same range as a normal contrabassoon, having already made
contrabassoons lower in pitch??? With 40 or so similar inventions under his
belt, I'm pretty sure this guy had an idea about low pitch.

Most of this came from Will Jansen's "The Bassoon" ---a five volume
encyclopedia devoted to the best instrument yet concieved...

Brock
 

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Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------

From: Michael Cogswell <Michael_Cogswell@gtsi.com>
Subject: RE: Contrabass clarinet FS
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:10:28 -0400
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

Something odd about this one.  It was a three hour auction, $500 was the
starting point not a bid.  There was a reserve, but it was never met because
there were no bids before it closed.  Is this some way of advertising?

MikeC
 

-----Original Message-----
Here's today's:

Leblanc model 340 Bb contrabass clarinet, at
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=109503069  The
seller states that this is a low C model from the '50s, which I think is a
contradiction in terms.  I looks to me like a low D model (perhaps he meant
concert C?), like the one I had originally (that breaks down in the
middle).  Current bid is $500, and the reserve is already met.

<snip>

Grant

---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:42:51 -0500
From: "Steve Rea" <srea@uaex.edu>
Subject: Buffet Bass Clarinet/Low C
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

Look what I found at ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D109700787

I've already got one, so, the rest of you can go for it.
 

Stephen Rea <srea@uaex.edu>
Oracle Certified Professional in Database Administration
University of Arkansas Cooperative Extension Service
Oracle Tips, Tricks, and Scripts:  http://www.uaex.edu/srea
 

---------------------------------------------------------

From: Pabstton@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:05:39 EDT
Subject: stands
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

Can anyone recommend a stand suitable for a straight contralto clarinet?
Preferably one from which the instrument can be played. The bass clarinet
stands which I've come across just alow the instrument to lean on it. This
would be a potential hazard to the rods.

Thanks

DPaten
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:39:21 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: RE: Contrabass clarinet FS
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

>Something odd about this one.  It was a three hour auction, $500 was the
>starting point not a bid.  There was a reserve, but it was never met because
>there were no bids before it closed.  Is this some way of advertising?
>
>MikeC

I had some correspondence with the seller.  Apparently, there was a glitch
during the posting process, and what showed up had the wrong reserve and/or
starting bid.  Also, he had posted it as a "low C" contra, and I pointed
out to him that it is really a "low D" model (otherwise, the bell would be
next to the top curve).  He's reposted it at
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=109588082.  The
opening bid was still apparently $500, but apparently the reserve is
somewhat higher ;-)  The seller has told me that he'll consider selling to
the highest bidder even if it doesn't make the reserve (not guaranteeing
anything...).

Grant

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green            gdgreen@contrabass.com
                    http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------

From: CoolStu67@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 13:51:22 EDT
Subject: Re: Small bassoons
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
<<
 It is also used to apply to the two different fingering schemes on
 woodwind instruments. When all three left hand fingers + three right hand
 fingers + a pinkie key are put down, instruments that have a "C" based
 fingering system play a written C and those that have a "F" based system
 play a written F.
 >>

Ok, this finally makes a little since. Thanks!

Stuart
-Sax/Clarinet
---------------------------------------------------------

From: CoolStu67@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 13:58:27 EDT
Subject: Re: stands
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

LOL, this is a joke. You need a stand to play the contralto AND bass
clarinet!? How tall/short/strong/weak/lazy are you? I'm not trying to mean or
anything, but there are bigger instruments (tuba/bass trombone/curved
contrabass clarinet/bass sax/the list goes on...) that I've never seen people
using stands on (except for Grant on curved Bb contra, but I play one
standless). My advice to you to toughen up and start supporting your
instrument :)

Stuart
-Sax/Clarinet

<<
 Can anyone recommend a stand suitable for a straight contralto clarinet?
 Preferably one from which the instrument can be played. The bass clarinet
 stands which I've come across just alow the instrument to lean on it. This
 would be a potential hazard to the rods.
>>
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:15:09 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: stands
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

>contrabass clarinet/bass sax/the list goes on...) that I've never seen people
>using stands on (except for Grant on curved Bb contra, but I play one
>standless). My advice to you to toughen up and start supporting your
>instrument :)

I only use the stands when I'm *not* playing the instrument.  The Bb contra
works just fine on its floor peg, the Eb contra reaches the floor anyway,
and the sarrusophones go on a neck strap (actually, the bass is light
enough to play without a strap).  I think the only time I'd play a horn on
a stand would be if I needed to play Bb contra while standing up.  It has a
single strap ring, positioned where it does *not* help support the
instrument.

However, I can imagine times when it might be handy.  For example, if
you're playing in a pit orchestra, and need to switch instruments during a
two measure break...

Grant

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green            gdgreen@contrabass.com
                    http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------

From: Ranchu242@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:20:02 EDT
Subject: YEA!
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
May 27, 1999

Hello all,

 I'm finally leaving high school!  I'm graduating in 4 hrs 50 min.
=o)  It starts at 8 o'clock, I hope nothing bad happens there (we've had a
bomb threat, there was a fake bomb in the bathroom at school).  That would
really ruin the day for all of us.  As I leave high school I face the day I
leave for college, and if I don't get a way to keep my fish, they will have
to stay here at home with..... my parents.  :(  .They mean well sometimes,
but... :(   .  I have to go get ready for graduation now!   <sad, never will
see my friends again>

Roger :(


 
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