Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 10:58:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ethan Stoller
Subject: Re: [CB] Re-creating the octo sound using software
OK, I'm having fun here, so I tried it again with a different
recording. This is a clip from "In A Persian Market" by Ted
Heath. Unfortunately, most of the notes are played
staccato. The limitations of reproducing such deep tones are
really surfacing here.
I added a fourth short clip at the end, with the original
recording in the left channel and the octave lower in the right.
I think it actually sounds kind of good like this.
--- Gregg Bailey wrote:
> Anyway, wow--I thought that both of the re-pitchings
sounded believable.
> However, I thought that the first re-pitching--the one WITH
the harmonic
> corrector turned on--sounded more realistic, mostly because
it was
> brighter, I think.
>
> Of course, the last note which is sustained on the contra
is the 2nd
> (written) D (assuming it's a BBb contra that has at least a
low D), which
> when transposed down an octave becomes the low D of a
regular BBb contra
> (or the 2nd D of an octo). Actually, the recording
sounds like it might
> actually be a contra-alto. Do you know which it is?
>
> It would be nice to hear a similar comparison of
re-pitchings with a
> recording snippet featuring lower notes that, when pitched
down, only
> an octocontra would possess. Could you do the same
thing again but with
> a contra recording that features low notes played
slowly? Do you have
> such a track?
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 22:38:19 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Fwd: [CB] "The Shining" (1997)
Forwarded for Louis,
>Louis Rugani
>Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 19:42:42 -0500
>Subject: [CB] "The Shining" (1997)
>
>Was anybody here in "The Shining" (1997)? Seriously. I'm wondering
because there's a satin-silver bass sax in the hotel band at the
Overlook Hotel,
>and I know they hired a real band to play the hotel band.
>
>Regards....
>Lou
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~ **-=3D\/=3D-** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>The opposite of bravery is not cowardice, but conformity.
> =AD Robert Anthony
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "John Kilpatrick"
Subject: Re: [CB] [CB Digest]
Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 10:39:58 +0100
>Also, since the bore and mouthpiece of a Leblanc EEb contra
and BBb contra
>are evidently the same, that would suggest to me that the
chalumeau notes
>that are shared between the two would have identical tone.
>Does anyone have any comments on that?
Tone-hole size and spacing are different, so would expect a
different cut-off frequency, affecting the tone one way or another.
John K
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Ken Shaw
Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 13:46:11 EDT
Subject: [CB] contrabass vs. contra-alto
Gregg Bailey says:
>The timbre difference between a
BBb contra and an EEb contra is not that
great... Also, since the bore
and mouthpiece of a Leblanc EEb contra and BBb
contra are evidently the same, that
would suggest to me that the chalumeau notes
that are shared between the two would
have identical tone.<
I'll have to disagree on both points. I own a Selmer
rosewood Eb and a Leblanc paperclip BBb (low C) and find the tones
quite different. The Selmer plays like a large bass
clarinet, with a (comparatively) colorful and flexible tone. The
Leblanc is nothing but contra, with a heavy, sub-bass quality. I
have to play them rather differently, even with mouthpieces that are
the same size. I've also played a Linton/Bundy Eb and a Vito BBb
and felt the same difference.
It's the same difference (though not as large) as between the
cello and the string bass.
Also, the mouthpieces and bores are not identical. The BBb
is considerably larger. The original Leblanc mouthpiece also used
a larger reed, but about 30 years ago they changed to a design
that is the same on the outside as their EEb model, and uses a somewhat
smaller reed. The Leblanc representative at the ClarinetFest on
Columbus told me they had gotten complaints from band directors, who
said the old model was too big for women to play. The Selmer Eb
and BBb mouthpieces are also the same on the outside and use the
smaller reeds. However, the BBb mouthpiece tenon is quite a bit
larger, to fit the larger BBb bore. (I have Selmer Eb and BBb
mouthpieces, which take, for me, a Vandoren bass sax reed, and a
Leblanc large BBb mouthpiece, which takes a Vandoren contrabass
clarinet reed.)
The problem with the octo contras, I think, is hearing the
pitch. I can hear the difference between low Eb and low D on my
BBb contra. However, I hear little difference between D and Db,
and none between Db and C, although my Korg tuner can tell them
apart. My ears just give out. On the octos, I doubt that I
could hear much difference between notes below concert BBBb.
Perhaps Terje, who has played them, can give us his experience.
The octos thus would be like the Russian sub-bass singers, who
don't sing alone, but provide a foundation for the rest of the choir.
I hadn't heard about the destruction of the octos in the Leblanc
fire. It's a real tragedy. Terje had written here a couple
of years ago that at least one of them was in a museum in the U.S.
(perhaps the Shrine to Music?). Was that one also taken back to
France? Terje, please fill us in.
Ken Shaw
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Sung
Hwang Wang"
Subject: RE:
[CB] contrabass vs. contra-alto
Date: Tue, 24
May 2005 14:33:02 -0700
Hello all.
Over the
years, I have played and owned a number of contras, and personally I
feel that each model has a unique timber and should be best taken
advantage of with correct mouthpiece and almost always, softer reeds.
I would like
to share some personal observations on these horns based on my playing
experience, since we are on the topic and someone on the list has
casually mentioned he was looking for one. Please note that I
play contras exclusively in a community wind band and I try to play
them with their original mouthpieces, Rovner ligature, and Legere reeds
between 2 2.75 strengths. FWIW, here are my impressions and
YMMV. And please do share with us your own observations.
Linton Eb:
manufactured by Orsi and can still be specially ordered from
Orsi. Body is all brass tube with nickel plate. Key system
is simple system, with 2 roller keys for each little finger, no
alternate keys for low E, F, or F#, and only Eb/Bb side trill
key. The original mouthpiece was sadly (or not) missing when I
bought it so I am using a Fobes Debut with it. John Morton
kindly made me an adapter to bring the pitch down a bit and in fact has
helped its playability tremendously. The horn plays well with low
resistance with the Fobes.
The horn has a
small handful of design drawbacks. The presence of a stock peg
(screwed on at the bottom of bell) allows you to play sitting down, but
it’s non-adjustable for height and it is way too short, even for an
average height person (I am 5 feet 7). The angle of the
mouthpiece entry is to very low in relations to your mouth, it is
designed to go straight into your mouth like the tenor sax, but the
stock peg’s short length makes this highly awkward and hardly
possible. The only solution is to raise the horn at least another
3 inches. Therefore I use a thick block of wood in addition to
the peg in order to raise the horn and place the mouthpiece
comfortably. But then this creates another problem. Now the
extra height puts the left hand position almost at eye level, which in
itself is not too bad, if not for the fact that the left hand key
arrangement forces you to having to keep your left elbow high in order
to play chalumeau C, C#, and D comfortably. The high elbow and
elbow-out position is extremely uncomfortable and I find it puts too
much stress on my shoulder, neck, and lower back even The roller
keys for the little fingers are also situated too low and makes them
difficult to reach. These are the design challenges that I find
difficult to overcome.
The two manual
register keys are actually very well designed and functional, you hit
the first register key at the normal spot after the break and up to
clarion D, then you slide your thumb to the right to hit the second
register key for all higher notes. Each key activates a different
vent and I find it really improves how well and powerful the notes can
speak. The horn is solidly built and I like its one piece body
and compactness as it’s coiled like a baritone sax. As a full
time horn it is faced with the design flaws noted above, and the
handicap of going down to low E only. The lower notes also play
quite flat and you will need quite a strong embouchure to lip up
enough. I really cannot recommend it as a good horn in solo
capacity, but it will make a good ensemble instrument supporting the
bass line. Other than that, it’s a great little horn. I
imagine it’s actually designed with marching in mind, with its dual
neck strap rings and sax-like features (reverse neck coil and mother of
pearl keys), and who knows, I might just try marching with it.
Yes, the sound
is loud and powerful, it rattles the floor at low E and you will
definitely feel its presence. But I also find it a little
one-dimensional and too warm and mellow and not colorful or flexible
enough. But like I said, it will probably serve its purpose well
(in marching), and in any case, it’s an old design and should be judged
accordingly. Not many of these are still around and I enjoy it as
it’s a rare horn, and I am just happy and lucky to have it in my
collection.
Now looking
for a Bb Linton/Orsi.
I will post
later about comparisons between the Leblanc 352 and Selmer France 40,
and between the Vito Bb and Leblanc 340 contras.
Willy
***End of Contrabass Digest***