From: "Lelia Loban"
Subject: [CB] SJSaxmas
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:06:40 -0500
Grant Green wrote,
>For anyone who checks their email in the next hour,
>the 5 PM show is at Vallco Fashion Park (aka "Vallco
>Mall") in Cupertino. Blaise brought his contrabass sax,
>Eb tubax (which a friend is playing) and a straight Bb
>tenor (played by another friend), along with a curved
>sopranino and a soprillo.
Wow! Wish I could have zapped myself over to the other
side of the continent for this concert. Please tell us all about
it!
Lelia Loban
Dump Don Rumsfeld.
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From: sande hackel
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:30:06 EST
Subject: Re: [CB] recorder question
I know that this is not really in the contrabass world, but I do
have a question about Bass recorders. Does anyone have experience
playing Moeck Bass recorders, baroque style? How is the
intonation and response?
sande hackel
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:20:01 -0500
From: Richard Spittel
Subject: Re: [CB] recorder question
In a message dated 12/20/2004 12:30:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
sande hackel writes:
>I know that this is not really in the contrabass world, but
I do have a
>question about Bass recorders. Does anyone have
experience playing Moeck Bass
>recorders, baroque style? How is the intonation and
response?
>sande hackel
I've played several Moeck Tuju bass recorders, and several folks in my
recorder group have Tuju's also. A good friend in the next town
has a top of the line Moeck baroque bass recorder (the one with all the
fancy turning). We don't have any quibbles about the intonation
on these horns (nor any major beefs with any of the Moeck models), but
the response issue might be more open to discussion. Most people
prefer to play the Tuju models foregoing the bocal, and blowing
directly into the windway, although the puts the right hand into a
uncomfortable hand position. There are now knick-basses (i.e.,
bent-neck) models from Moeck, but I haven't personally tried any of
those. As far as these models compare to other bass recorders,
you could do a lot worse, but several co-players have opted for bass
recorders from other makers, notably Zen-on & Roessler (now sadly
out of business).
Personally, my favorite bass is the Dolmetsch Nova plastic model
(available for about 1/4 the cost of a comparable wooden one). It
has a bent neck, which makes the hand and fingering reach much more
comfortable, and since it is direct blow, the response is very
good. Coming in a close second it the Yamaha plastic bass.
IMHO, I'd say the Dometsch sound is a bit more focused.
There are several recorder groups you might want to join to ask
questions like this, e-mail me privately if you're interested, and I'll
send you the details.
Richard Spittel
Baltimore, MD
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Subject: RE: [CB] recorder question
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:35:28 -0700
From: "Bryan Bingham"
I have played their knick Flauto Rondo bass.
- Pros:
- lightweight
- easy to hold/finger
- Reasonably responsive and clean on top
- Intonation is acceptable
- Cons:
- Low register is pretty weak
- No wood choices
- Sound is plain
- Hard to assemble/disassemble (the one I have used)
I have never seen a Rottenburgh bass. This may mean something because
other Moeck Rottenburgh instruments are very common. One possible plus
for that instrument is that Moeck offers it in both A442 and A415 and
you can buy the extra center piece.
IMHO, I would look at Kung Superio and/or Huber and/or Fehr
basses before Moeck if I were buying a factory-made instrument. These
new models are much stronger in every way than their predecessors. I
have a Huber bass in olivewood that is simply amazing - the best I have
ever heard.
B2 (anxiously awaiting my Dolmetsch Millenium Contrabass
recorder - any month now).
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Subject: RE: [CB] recorder question
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:45:09 -0700
From: "Bryan Bingham"
...
As far as these models compare to other bass recorders,
you could do a lot worse, but several co-players have opted for bass
recorders from
other makers, notably Zen-on & Roessler (now sadly out of
business).
Personally, my favorite bass is the Dolmetsch Nova plastic model
(available for about 1/4 the cost of a comparable wooden one). It
has a bent neck, which makes the hand and fingering reach much more
comfortable, and since it is direct blow, the response is very good.
Coming in a close second it the Yamaha plastic bass. IMHO, I'd
say the Dometsch sound is a bit more focused.
...
Good advice here. I have a playing partners with Zen-ons and
Roesslers - the Zen-on is much better (although that could be the
player). I would avoid the Roesslers even used. You might find a good
deal on a used Zen-on somewhere. My recommendations are definitly in a
higher price bracket.
I agree that Dolmetsch Nova is a better value than the Yamaha.
It's lighter too - better for marching.
B2
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:47:47 +0100
Subject: Re: [CB] recorder question
From: Klaus Bjerre
> I know that this is not really in the contrabass world, but
I do have a
> question about Bass recorders. Does anyone have
experience playing Moeck Bass
> recorders, baroque style? How is the intonation and
response?
> sande hackel
Recorder players have different opinions on the bass versions.
Some maintain, that it is possible to play with exact rhythm
through a bocal. Personally I am not convinced about that.
My bass is a directly blown Alexander Heinrich from around 1973.
My great bass is a much older 2nd hand Moeck, which I first blew
through the bocal.
During a tour of school concerts I lost the wind-cap, which is
the "hat" into the side of which the bocal is mounted.
As the tour was in December one major piece was my own setting
of the Swedish tune "Santa Lucia" for tenor, bass, and great bass
recorders, I had to come up with an immediate solution.
Took a wooden clothes peg, threw away the spring, shaped the peg
halves with a knife, mounted them on the lower key levers by means of
textile elastics intended to keep up old style ladies' lower underwear,
and voila:
I had got myself a directly blown great bass, which played
immensely much better than when blown through the bocal. Fast triple
tonguing on low C is very well possible now. Of course it helps, that I
suffer from the orangutan syndrome: even longer arms, than those of the
gorilla syndrome.
The wind-cap returned to me, but is never used any more.
One shall expect all bass recorders to be much more primitive
instruments, than lets say a good Buffet clarinet. Key stoppers may be
made of soft felt, which soon will let the keys open too much, so that
the intonation goes haywire (adjustments are needed so frequently, that
it is necessary to be able to do them oneself). Forked fingerings are
very vulnerable in sound character. One may have to shade with the
raised finger and blow a bit harder to get the wanted projection.
Yet I like my large recorders very much. Meditative
improvisation on ones own is a wonderful experience.
And leading, from the great bass, a 30 piece recorder group of
well schooled students playing in 2', 4', and 8' (some cheating
necessary there) subdivisions is very rewarding. But recorders can live
up to the levels of intonation and blend one would want from any good
ensemble. The common attitude, that the recorder were tuned from the
factory goes as much for them as it goes for trombones.
My reply is not directly addressing your question, but then I am
not convinced, that a such answer can be given,
Whatever problems you may experience with your bass recorder
however will be minuscule compared to the ones I will experience, when
my newest acquisition will force me to mutate my recorder and brass
genes into a general merger:
And yes, it is MOCK, not a Moeck, serpent.
The sound bit is not by me. My first tempts likely will earn me
a certificate as vermin exterminator.
Klaus
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:48:25 -0800
From: "Grant Green"
Subject: Re: [CB] SJSaxmas
The final count was 215 players (one of whom - me - played
contrabass sarrusophone). 140 of the 215 were altos, which are divided
into Alto I, Alto II and Alto III. (Tenors and baris have I and II on
most charts: I don't know if the sopranos are divided). The actual
written parts range from Eb sopranino down to bass, with us
contrabasses (1 CB sax, 1 Eb tubax, and 1 Eb contra sarrusophone)
playing bari I and bari II parts. Ray also has a soprillo now, but
hasn't scored anything for it yet (I think he wants some more practice
time on it first - when you soar that high above the rest of the
ensemble, you want to be really sure
of your intonation).
Ray does all the arranging for the event, and typically
introduces a new chart or two per year. Last year was the Halleluha
Chorus. This year, we had "Dance of the Sugarplum Saxes" (and would
have had another but for a computer crash). Sugarplum Saxes seem to
sound a lot more aggressive than the flute/piccolo/celeste variety ;-)
Other arrangements include classics such as Carol of the Bells, the
Chipmunk Christmas Song, Silent Night, medlys of old carols, etc. About
16 charts, in a one-hour concert.
Ray always takes a couple of minutes from the performance to
talk a bit about saxophones, and to point out the different sizes
present: this year we had 2 soprillos, several Eb sopraninos (both
straight and curved), a few C sopranos, Bb sopranos both straight and
curved (and a couple of saxellos), 140 Eb altos, as mentioned, 3 C
melody saxes, numerous tenors and baris, 5 BASSES, 1 Eb tubax, 1 Eb
contrabass sax, and 1 Eb contrabass sarrusophone.
We do two performances: one outside in the park in San Jose
("Christmas in the Park"), and a second one inside in an area shopping
mall (at Vallco Fashion Park this year). The second one is typically
recorded. You can order a CD of the performance (yes, we recorded this
year too) from Ray's website at
http://www.sjsaxmas.com/listen.htm.
Even though the website wasn't updated for this year's performance, the
same person did the recording. The mail-in form at least should still
be applicable.
Next year's San Jose Sax Xmas is currently planned for 12/17/05,
for those of you who need to make travel plans... ;-) There are
also tentative plans for a San Diego counterpart next year.
Enjoy!
Grant
================================
Grant Green Contrabass.com
Sarrusophones & contrabass winds
================================
--
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From: "Judy Latz"
Subject: Re: [CB] recorder question
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:02:51 -0500
Richard,
I am very interested in recorders at the moment because my
daughter requested them as Christmas gifts for her family. I
bought & gave them an assortment -- 2 each, soprano, alto &
tenor. Bass recorders were just too expensive. I bid up to
$203 for one on Ebay but was outbid at that point -- don't know how
high it went, but the price of a new bass was way too high. I was
not able to find much music for recorder ensembles. I haven't
check JW Pepper's online catalog yet, but they have a store in my area
so I went and had very little recorder music. I could only find
fingering charts for the soprano. I seem to remember that the
fingerings are different on each different pitched recorder.
If you think these are questions I could find answers for from
the groups you mentioned, please forward info on the groups. Or,
perhaps you can advise. I will appreciate it very much.
I enjoy the contrabass list, although I rarely post a
comment. I play high voiced instruments -- oboe, English horn,
flute, piccolo, but got on this list a few years ago when the concert
band I manage was ready to purchase a contrabass clarinet. I got
some really good help from this list and we were able to buy a good
used instrument. Until I got on this list, I was totally unaware
of the whoe low, low, bass sub culture that exists! :-)
I got another great thing from the list -- an introduction to
Jay Easton. Our band was able to engage him to appear in concert with
us about 2 years ago. He had to ship his contrabass sax by
ground, as it was too large for the plane. (He was in CA at that
time & we're in Atlanta). We had to arrange for a band member
with a pickup truck to drive the thing around to rehearsals,
performances, etc. The case was as big a a coffin! Jay was
just fabulous! He also brought his bari, alto and soprinino &
performed on all -- some at our band concert, as a soloist, and some on
a recital we arranged for him to present while here. After the
recital & band concert, he stayed around for over an hour (each) to
let sax players, from students to adult players, have a look at his
rare contrabass sax. He was great!
And a very nice person too!
Judy Latz
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Sung Hwang Wang"
Subject: [CB] Hello everyone.
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:29:43 -0800
Hello all, I have been wanting to join the list for months but
finally qualified recently with the purchase of 2 contra
instruments. I used to play bass clarinet in New Westminster
Concert Band, but I am now a proud owner of a Leblanc 352 contra alto
clarinet and a Vito contrabass. Thanks to my local tech for
setting them up, they now play as good as they can. All three of
my mouthpieces (stock Leblanc, Woodwind, Clark Fobes) are workable on
either horn with Vandoren #2 or #3 contrabass reeds. The sounds
are quite pleasing to hear and the low grumbles are simply great!
Now a question that I hope some of you can offer a tip.
The contra alto has a peg that sometimes slips. When I used to
play it without a neck strap, when the peg slipped without a warning,
the bell ended up crashing onto the floor, which can’t be good.
So I learned my lessons and now I always play with a neck strap on so
when it does slip occasionally, I have a fighting chance of catching
it. To my naked eyes the peg assembly and the peg seem a perfect
fit, and they are still workable 90% of the time, so I don’t really
want to spend the money to have the whole thing replaced, because even
then, there is no guarantee that it won’t happen again, right? So
I am looking for quick fixes, care to offer any? Right now, the
way it is, it is really an annoyance, when I have to leave it on the K
& M stand, I have to remember to retract the peg and rest the bell
directly on the cup, for the fear of the horn crashing down when I am
not around. For quick instrument changes, this is really a hassle.
For those of you who play non-paperclip contras, I have an
advice that you might find useful. I don’t carry a stool, and I
hate sitting on a stack of chairs. For me, I rather stand.
But most of us are too tall to play standing up, so how do I play my
Vito contrabass? Well, I visited my garden shop and bought a
plastic flower pot. It ranges in all size; for me, a height of
about 8 or 9 inches work best. It is dirt cheap or free, or you
might already have them at home. I invert the pot and rest it on
the floor, so the bottom of the pot is facing up. Then I rest the
instrument right on top of it, and voila, an effective stand that props
the horn up just the right height. It is cheap, widely available,
negates the need for peg assembly, stools, or stack of chairs, it’s
light and easy to handle, and the best thing about it is that it fits
perfectly into the empty slot inside the contra’s 6-foot case. It
is simply the best solution. The plastic may give it after a few
months, so what? Replace it for less than 5 dollars and you are
ready to go again.
It works great for me, I hope if works for some of you too.
Cheers,
Willy
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Subject: RE: [CB] recorder question
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:31:52 -0700
From: "Bryan Bingham"
www.dolmetsch.com
is a trove of useful information includings lots of fingering charts.
There is a ton of free sheet music suitable for recorders
available on the web.
Soprano and tenor recorders have the same fingerings an octave
apart. Alto and bass recorders have the same fingerings an octave apart
and a 5th below the soprano/tenor. I.e. all fingers down is a C (C5/C4)
for soprano/tenors and an F (F4/F3) for Alto/basses. Yes, F3 is almost
altissimo for this list, but there you are. My long awaited contrabass
will only reach F2!
You're right about the price of a bass - the best bet is to buy
all 4 at once from Dolmetsch or certain dealers - you can save big that
way when you're just getting started. Unlike many other instruments one
really can never stop buying recorders - there is always one more piece
of wood you need - like a voice flute (lowest note is D4) at A415 pitch.
B2
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:51:40 -0800
From: "Grant Green"
Subject: Re: [CB] recorder question
>I was not able to find much music for recorder ensembles.
You can try:
Enjoy!
Grant
================================
Grant Green Contrabass.com
Sarrusophones & contrabass winds
================================
--
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:57:31 -0800
From: "Grant Green"
Subject: Re: [CB] Bouncing contras
Welcome!
If I remember right, the fix for slipping pegs is to unscrew the
set screw (the screw that is supposed
to hold the peg in place), and to put a drop of solder right
at the tip. The solder is soft enough that you can really tighten it
against the peg - holds much better. Rufus did this for my Bb contra a
couple of years ago, and its still holding fine.
Rufus, I hope that wasn't a trade secret...
Enjoy,
Grant
---------- Original Message
----------------------------------
From: "Sung Hwang Wang"
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:29:43
-0800
>The contra alto has a peg that
sometimes slips. When I used to play
>it without a neck strap, when the
peg slipped without a warning, the
>bell ended up crashing onto the
floor, which can't be good.
================================
Grant Green Contrabass.com
Sarrusophones & contrabass winds
================================
--
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "arthur grossman"
Subject: Re: [CB] Bouncing contras
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:03:02 -0800
Another solution, and one that I prefer, is to file a flat place
on the peg where you want it to lock. If you need to use chairs
of differing heights, you can file in several flat spots. I like to
leave the edges of the flat spots very abrupt, so that there is an edge
against which the set screw rests and it cannot slip.
***End of Contrabass Digest***