Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 23:21:45 -0500
Subject: Re: [CB] basset clarinets
From: Timothy J Tikker
Seems to me that the basset clarinet is the most logical
form of the instrument. This is partly because the lowest notes
overblown would almost entirely replace the throat register, improving
on them, or at least just providing alternatives which would possibly
allow for easier fingering of certain passages.
I don't have a basset, but I have a full-Boehm Bb soprano.
And once I got used to it -- which took a while! -- I found that being
able to overblow the lowest Eb into Bb not only sounded hugely better
than the throat Bb, but often provided better fingerings in various
contexts.
Perhaps operating the lowest basset notes is cumbersome enough
that they wouldn't always provide smooth alternate fingerings.
But still, I can imagine that in some contexts it could still prove an
advantage.
- Tim Tikker
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 05:47:15 +0100
Subject: Re: [CB] basset clarinets
From: Klaus Bjerre
> Seems to me that the basset clarinet is the most
logical form of the
> instrument. This is partly because the lowest notes
overblown would
> almost entirely replace the throat register, improving on
them, or at
> least just providing alternatives which would possibly
allow for easier
> fingering of certain passages.
>
> I don't have a basset, but I have a full-Boehm Bb
soprano. And once I
> got used to it -- which took a while! -- I found that being
able to
> overblow the lowest Eb into Bb not only sounded hugely
better than the
> throat Bb, but often provided better fingerings in various
contexts.
>
> Perhaps operating the lowest basset notes is cumbersome
enough that
> they wouldn't always provide smooth alternate
fingerings. But still, I
> can imagine that in some contexts it could still prove an
advantage.
>
> - Tim Tikker
>
I cannot disagree much with you. Only the whole
nomenclatura in the clarinet world is wrong.
The standard so-called Bb clarinet as found in so many bands
never was a Bb instrument. It is an Eb instrument with an extension
allowing for a low D concert. Much in style with a B-foot flute.
The basset horn as known from Mozart is not an F alto clarinet,
but a Bb tenor clarinet with an extension allowing for a low F. Please
try to let a tenor saxophone player play an adequately transposed
basset horn part. He/she will feel right at home immediately.
Having an odd overblowing system is fine. But letting it baptise
the instrument pitch is odd.
Klaus
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Ken Shaw
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:01:32 EST
Subject: [CB] Left-Handed Instruments
Charlie Ponte had a left-handed flute hanging in his music store
for many years. I saw it and can vouch for the fact.
Avrahm Galper owned a left-handed Bb clarinet. Photos
are on his website, beside a normal model, so it's not a flopped
shot. The same picture is on the clarinet site,
www.woodwind.org.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02
Nov 2004 09:04:08 -0600
From: "Gregg
Bailey"
Subject: [CB]
straight alto/bass clarinet
Can any of you
tell me how I could have a bass clarinet or even alto clarinet
constructed such that it would be completely straight and exactly
proportional in every way to a Bb clarinet? Of course, the
keywork would have to be more like the keywork found on already
existing bass clarinets, but that is the ONLY thing I would want to be
different from a Bb.
Today's low
clarinets have an almost completely different sound from the Bb.
The Bb and A clarinets are so nice and dark in tone quality right down
to their lowest notes, yet the larger clarinets are so bright and
"rankettish" in the low registers unless played pianissimo. By
the time you get down to the contrabass clarinet, it's essentially a
different type of instrument altogether, only being similar to the
clarinet in the fact that its bore is cylindrical. I imagine that
this increased brightness in the low clarinets is mostly due to the
narrower scale of the bore in relation to the tube length.
I want so
badly to have an alto and bass clarinet constructed that are identical
in tone to the Bb, just lower. Much like the Violin Octet family
which is comprised of eight violin family instruments all proportional
in construction, and completely identical in tone from the highest to
lowest instrument. Since I am an organist, this quality is
especially appealing in an instrument family, because the organ very
much has that quality.
I have a book
titled The Encyclopedia of
Musical Instruments edited by Robert Dearling, and this Violin
Octet is described on page 86, with a very nice picture of the
instruments on page 87. The caption reads: "The Violin
Octet or New Violin Family, acoustically matched violins characterized
by their tonal homogeneity." The description reads:
"...More conventional in design is the New Violin Family developed in
recent years by the American Catgut Acoustical Society. This
comprises eight instruments, the smallest being pitched an octave
higher than the violin and the largest (shaped like a large cello) of
the same pitch as the double bass. The standard violin is
retained as, after a fashion, are the viola and cello, but these last
two are of a size which complements their pitch relationship to the
violin and to each other. Consequently the viola, known as the
alto violin, is larger than its orthodox counterpart and has to by
played between the knees like a cello. The cello itself, again
larger, is called the baritone violin. In addition, there is a
soprano violin, pitched an actave higher than the alto; a tenor violin
tuned an octave lower then the violin proper; and a bass violin with
tuning a third lower than that of the baritone."
Any thoughts
would be greatly appreciated.
-Gregg Bailey
---------------------------------------------------------
From: David
Richoux
Subject: Re:
[CB] office of the precedent
Date: Tue, 2
Nov 2004 09:35:53 -0800
Didn't John
Kerry play Electric Bass Guitar in an early 60s surf band? let me
do a quick web search.
that is the
only one I can think of right off the bat.
Dave Richoux
On Oct 27,
2004, at 7:55 PM, jim wrote:
> Have we
had any world leaders who played contrabass anything?
>
> Jim
> America
can do better: Sue Nigro in 2004!
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2
Nov 2004 10:21:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve
Marcus
Subject: Re:
[CB] office of the precedent
Jim asked:
> Have we
had any world leaders who played contrabass anything?
Well, the
Sheriff of Mayberry played tuba.
And Mr.
Clinton has had a toot on contrabass sax.
> Jim
> America
can do better: Sue Nigro in 2004!
I second the
nomination!
Steve Marcus
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02
Nov 2004 21:29:14 +0100
From: Terje
Lerstad
Subject: Re:
[CB] Bassett clarinets
Preesumably
noone has received my article of 28. october. I have a bassett
clarinet in C and one in Bflat, and there are several bassett
clarinets in A in Oslo (Norway, not Sweden). The C
instrument sounds like a C instrument in the top register, but
different (but not necessarily worse than a Bflat clarinet) using the
bassett keys, the Bbflat sounds like a Bbflat clarinet and the A
bassett sounds like an A clarinet. Of course an alto clarinet sounds
like an alto clarinet in Eflat. That's the reason I have
both alto and bassett horn (the D and Eflat clarinets are quite
different, but that's to high in pitch for this).
t
PS If you did
not receive my mail of 28. october, tell me if you care
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02
Nov 2004 15:44:54 -0500
From: Chip
Owen
Subject: Re:
[CB] straight alto/bass clarinet
Heckel used to
make straight bell bass and alto clarinets. Of course the neck
was curved--you'd never stand a chance of reaching the keys otherwise.
It's also significant that these instruments were made of maple rather
than grenadilla. I would expect maple to perform very
nicely. Probably better than grenadilla.
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 12:52:38 -0800
From: Craig
Subject: Re: [CB] straight alto/bass clarinet
Interesting concept, Gregg. Comments below.
Gregg Bailey wrote:
>Can any of you tell me how I could have a bass clarinet or
even alto
>clarinet constructed such that it would be completely
straight and
>exactly proportional in every way to a Bb clarinet? Of
course, the
>keywork would have to be more like the keywork found on
already existing
>bass clarinets, but that is the ONLY thing I would want to
be different
>from a Bb.
For starters, the hands - especially the right hand (in conventional
construction) would be proportionately further from the mouth as well.
I find the right hand / mouth distance on a Bb soprano to be about the
limit of comfort, so a straight instrument of larger size would be a
challenge. Unless lots of keywork (read, weight) were added, that is.
The fingers on the bass remain approximately near the associated keys.
Even the contra-alto doesn't require much accommodation. It is the
hand-mouth distance more than the distance between fingers that
determines playability. I actually find playing larger clarinets easier
than playing soprano, but that may be because I switched to bass 31
years ago. Possibly the third smartest move I have made. The second was
reconnecting with my jr. high school sweetheart - marriage pending. :-)
>Today's low clarinets have an almost completely different
sound from the
>Bb. The Bb and A clarinets are so nice and dark in
tone quality right
>down to their lowest notes, yet the larger clarinets are so
bright
>and "rankettish" in the low registers unless played
pianissimo.
Yes. Although mouthpiece, reed and even ligature affect this markedly.
Consider also that the larger clarinets have bells much smaller by
proportion than the sopranos.
>By the
>time you get down to the contrabass clarinet, it's
essentially a
>different type of instrument altogether, only being similar
to the
>clarinet in the fact that its bore is cylindrical. I
imagine that this
>increased brightness in the low clarinets is mostly due to
the narrower
>scale of the bore in relation to the tube length.
Yes. A fully proportionate straight bass would be difficult to get
one's hands on - in both senses. ;-)
I agree that the contra clarinets are different animals. There
are pronounced differences between the EEb contra-alto and the BBb
contrabass. Most of us can only dream (for now) what playing an octo-
must be like.
> I want so badly to have an alto and bass clarinet
constructed that are
>identical in tone to the Bb, just lower. Much like the
Violin Octet
>family which is comprised of eight violin family instruments
all
>proportional in construction, and completely identical in
tone from the
>highest to lowest instrument. Since I am an organist,
this quality is
>especially appealing in an instrument family, because the
organ very much
>has that quality.
Overall, I think more can be accomplished by playing with the bell and
the length / diameter ratio than by getting rid of the bends. The key
to wide acceptance is ease of playing, after all. Traditional basses
have it. The contra-alto has it. Oversize sopranos? Not so much. Keep
in mind that this much longer, heavier instrument would need to be
played in a comparable position to maintain consistency of appearance.
Although I have seen sopranos played almost vertically - my mouth hurts
just thinking about it.
Craig
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 15:39:25 -0800
From: "Grant Green"
Subject: Re: [CB] Left-Handed Instruments
During the Renaissance, woodwinds were often played either way
(with either hand up). Instruments like larger recorders and crumhorns
that have keys for the lowest note(s) often have "swallowtail" keys,
that can be reached by the little finger regardless of which side it is
on. Smaller instruments, where the little finger covers a hole, often
had a hole on each side: the unused hole was simply plugged.
I suspect that standardizing on "left hand up" happened as a
result of the increasing complexity of the keywork.
Enjoy!
Grant
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Ken Shaw
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:01:32 EST
>Charlie Ponte had a left-handed flute hanging in his music
store for
> many years. I saw it and can vouch for the fact.
***End of Contrabass Digest***