Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 15:51:51 -0700
From: Craig
Subject: Re: [CB] Potententially fraudulent sale of a Selmer 40
EEb Contra
Odd that this collector aunt provided no input on what these
horns should be worth. For the instrument in question, a starting bid
of $99 and no reserve? In our dreams, perhaps.
Stranger still that this item has bid up to over $400 in three
days, with a picture that does not match the description. Can you say,
"red flags everywhere?"
Shipping free, anywhere in the world? Shipping an item such as
this in a way that provides a reasonable guarantee of safe arrival
would cost a significant portion of the current bid.
On the other hand, some impossibly fortunate soul could wind up
owning a rosewood contra for a tiny fraction of it's actual value - for
as long as it took for the buyer to be traced, anyway.
Call me a cynic, but my birth certificate doesn't have
yesterday's date on it.
Craig
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Gordon Hallgren"
Subject: Re: [CB] Potententially fraudulent sale of a Selmer 40
EEb Contra Alto Clarinet
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 19:24:49 -0400
perhaps someone should ask him for photos of the actual horn(s)
- especially the contra???
look at some of his other auctions. this guy deals only in high
dollar stuff. interesting that he didn't do anything his first year of
membership (buy or sell) and that in almost three years, he has only
bought seven items (hasn't sold anything to-date), then all-of-a-sudden
pops up with eight many-dollar listings in two days.
wouldn't you like to know???
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Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 18:40:08 -0500
From: jim
Subject: Re[2]: [CB] Potententially fraudulent sale of a Selmer
40 EEb Contra Alto Clarinet
eBay would do well to employ groups of experts to keep an eye on
things.
You really can't pull one over on the list members here.
Jim
> look at some of his other auctions. this guy deals only in
high dollar
> stuff. interesting that he didn't do anything his first
year of membership
> (buy or sell) and that in almost three years, he has only
bought seven items
> (hasn't sold anything to-date), then all-of-a-sudden pops
up with eight
> many-dollar listings in two days.
>
> wouldn't you like to know???
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Sherry Katz"
Subject: Re: [CB] Potententially fraudulent sale of a Selmer 40
EEb Contra Alto Clarinet
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 17:16:14 -0700
> > *
> > Odd that this collector aunt provided no input on what
these horns should be
> > worth. For the instrument in question, a starting bid
of $99 and no reserve?
> > In our dreams, perhaps.
> >
> > Stranger still that this item has bid up to over $400
in three days,
> > with a picture
> > that does not match the description. Can you say, "red
flags everywhere?"
> >
> > Shipping free, anywhere in the world? Shipping an item
such as this in a way
---
From reading this listing I think it's really unclear that its a
fraud. It's quite possible that this is an inexperienced ebay seller
who really doesn't know how to post a picture and who really is posting
for his aunt. The inexperience could account for not taking Paypal.
I agree that this auction is highly suspicious- for all the
reasons discussed in this thread - but it doesn't smell like a
fraud to me - I think the guy might be for real. However, there
is no way on earth I would bid on a high $$$ item like this without
many pictures of the actual item.
I have actually sold several high dollar guitars and saxophones
and a couple of bass clarinets starting with an opening bid of $1 or
$100 and no reserve. I can just tell you from experience that most
items will reach their market value quite quickly. That pricing
strategy is not necessarily indicative of fraud.
Similarly free shipping isn't indicative of fraud either.
Here's why I think it might not be fraud:
- The seller is in the US.
- The seller is not requiring payment by bank transfer.
- The seller is not selling electronic gear. (For some
reasons computer and electronic gear are really subject to being fraud
bait).
- The seller is not selling a flood of low dollar generic stuff.
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Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 17:49:47 -0700
From: "Chuck Guzis"
Subject: Re: [CB] Potententially fraudulent sale of a Selmer 40
EEb
On 8/9/2004, Sherry Katz wrote:
>Similarly free shipping isn't indicative of fraud either.
>Here's why I think it might not be fraud:
>1. The seller is in the US.
>2. The seller is not requiring payment by bank
transfer.
>3. The seller is not selling electronic gear.
(For some reasons computer and electronic gear are really subject to
being fraud bait).
>4. The seller is not selling a flood of low dollar
generic stuff.
A little lesson in eBay scams follows.
- There's no guarantee of this--the seller SAYS he's in the US,
but eBay doesn't check these things too closely. His email is a
yahoo.com address--this could really be anywhere.
- No, but he can cash the check or money order and be out of town
before you realize that something's wrong.
- See the following by the same seller:
(1) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3D38122&item=3D6700153071
(1) belongs to his roomate--Vaios are very hot nowadays.
(2) belongs to "us"
(3) belongs to his grandfather
(4) belongs to "me"
(5) belongs to his grandfather
(6) belongs to his girlfriend
All use manufacturer's image (his girlfriend is into
photography, so there's no reason that real photos couildn't have been
used). My guess is that if these things actually exist in his
possession, they've been stolen.
Always, always, check the feedback and other items that a seller
has up. Has the seller been a seller before? If so, what
was the feedback from the sale? Does the seller regularly sell
this type of merchandise? If there's the slightest doubt,
ask for more information, such as photos taken from a different angle,
or serial numbers. An honest seller will be happy to accomodate
you.
One pattern to look out for is the "hijacked" ID; ebay's version
of identity theft. Some dishonest individual will determine the
password for an account that hasn't been used for 6 or more
months. The original owner usually has no idea of what's
happening until the police come a-knocking.
Cheers,
Chuck
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 21:18:54 -0400
Subject: Re: [CB] Potententially fraudulent sale of a Selmer 40
EEb Contra Alto Clarinet
From: Michael C Grogg
Actually he is selling computer and electronics. High end
hunting rifle scopes and fishfinders too. Kind of a radical
departure from a person who's last purchase was a $1.35 flowered print
handbag.
The only way he might actually be selling such stuff is if the
merchandise is stolen, but I would still go with someones Ebay ID has
been hi-jacked.
MG
> Here's why I think it might not be fraud:
> 3. The seller is not selling electronic gear. (For
some reasons computer
> and electronic gear are really subject to being fraud bait).
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 21:08:55 -0400
Subject: Re: [CB] Potententially fraudulent sale of a Selmer 40
EEb Contra Alto Clarinet
From: Michael C Grogg
Klaus,
Good call on the suspicious seller. Looking at all the
items he has for sale, they are all improbable high value items.
He seems to have a lot of relatives who dump high value items after
little or no use.
I smell a rat.
Michael
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Sherry Katz"
Subject: Re: [CB] Potententially fraudulent sale of a Selmer 40
EEb Contra Alto Clarinet
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 18:27:22 -0700
You are right - this looks like a hijaacked account. I
hadn't checked the other items he was selling - which is an important
thing to check.
Sherry
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From: "Garzas"
Subject: [CB] Contrabass Saxophone
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:57:24 -0700
Hello,
Does anybody know the difference between the
Orsi SA-120 and the Orsi SA-121 Contrabass Saxophones? Is the
SA-121 pitched in C? I emailed Mr. Orsi and am still waiting for
a response but hopefully one of you can help me out.
Thanks,
Blaise
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Garzas"
Subject: [CB] Contrabass Saxophone
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:05:34 -0700
Oh here is the link:
Scroll to the bottom.
Thanks again,
Blaise
***End of Contrabass Digest***