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2002-05-10

 
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:57:23 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] Nomenclature of Clarintet vs. other winds


At 11:04 AM 5/9/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>I understand John Kilpatrick's comment perfectly, because it is something
>that I have thought myself for quite some time--that the Bb clarinet
>should be called an Eb instrument.  The reason I feel this way is because,
>ignoring the bassoon (which reads concert pitch anyway), all the other
>woodwinds are such that low C is fingered Left Thumb, L1, L2, L3, R1, R2,
>R3, and R4 depressed.  Therefore, to be consistent, what is currently
>called Low F on the clarinet should be instead called Low C.

Of course, the 7-finger note on bassoon is also Low F.  But your point is well-taken: it is odd that the clarinet seems to have been named according to its upper register rather than its fundamental register.

>Besides, the C scale in the flute and sax is the one that is easiest since
>you simply lift up the fingers one by one going up, and vice-versa coming
>down.  This makes since, as the C scale has no flats or sharps.  The F
>scale in the low register of the clarinet is this way, but it has a Bb in
>the scale.  In order to play the C scale on the clarinet below middle C on
>the page, you have to play a funny fingering for the B natural that does
>not fit this pattern of simply lifting the fingers one by one.  Therefore,
>since the F scale on the clarinet fits the finger pattern of the C scale
>on the flute, sax, and oboe (for the most part),

Yes, the oboe is somewhat different, having (a) no thumb hole, and (b) an F# in its "natural" scale (L123 R1 plays F#, not the F a flute or sax-player would expect).

>  I agree that low F on the clarinet should be renamed C, thus becoming an
> Eb instrument.  John is right--the nomenclature seems to be instead based
> on the clarion register.  In this register, the C scale IS this finger
> pattern, because everything is shifted up a fifth in terms of fingering
> from the chalumeau register.  I suppose we can take a look at the name of
> the instrument--Clarinet.  In French, you have "Clairon," then in another
> language, the i and the r are transposed to form what we commonly know as
> "Clarion," and in yet another language, this "Clarion" is manipulated
> whereby the o and the n are transposed to form "Clarino."  I assume that
> the Clarinet got its name from "Clarino", which refers to that second
> register.  So, maybe the clarion register is considered to be the most
> important register of the instrument, which would explain why the
> nomenclature would lend itself to that register, where the C scale DOES
> fit the finger pattern that I mentioned.

The clarinet's immediate ancestor was the chalumeau, which was played only in the fundamental range (i.e., it didn't have an upper register).  The main difference between the chalumeau and the clarinet was that the clarinet could be played in the upper register, and apparently that is where most of its parts went.  According to Baines ("Woodwind Instruments and Their History"), the lower register on the early clarinets (e.g., the 2-keyed clarinet) wasn't very good, and most composers wrote mainly for the clarion register.  "Clarino" refers to a style of trumpet playing, where the trumpeter played in the upper registers, taking advantage of the fact that the partials are close enough together to play scale passages (this is prior to the invention of valved brass).  It was probably natural for musicians to concentrate more on the clarion register than the chalumeau register for the early instruments, and the key designations followed from that.

Grant


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Grant Green                    contrabass.com
Sarrusophones & other Contrabass Winds
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 17:01:22 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re:[CB] Grat bass (and bigger) recorder construction


At 10:45 PM 5/7/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>Hunt down the little book on making your own instruments by
>Art Benade. (And anything else by Art Benade) It is simple but
>you may find some pearls.  Oscar

I wasn't aware that AB had written a book on instrument making (acoustics, yes: building, no).  There are a number of books by Bart Hopkin on instrument construction, however.

Grant


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Grant Green                    contrabass.com
Sarrusophones & other Contrabass Winds
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---------------------------------------------------------

From: "Gregg B"
Subject: [CB] Oboe, Sax, Trumpet, and Clarinet fingering
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 01:24:21 -0500


Grant,

>the oboe is somewhat different, having (a) no thumb hole,

Of course, neither does the sax.  However, I think I know why.  I was told by an instrument repairman that Adolphe sax was thinking in terms of brass fingering when he designed the sax.  Therefore, in BOTH hands for the sax, the middle finger alone lowers the note by a half step; the first finger alone lowers the note by a whole step, and the first PLUS second finger is the minor third.  This corresponds to brass fingering.  So, there is no thumb hole.  After all, he WAS trying to create a woodwind-brass hybrid, so he utilized the tube design of the brass as well as the fingering system, as
much as it would translate to woodwind fingering.

This same person explained to me the reason that this system is even so on a brass instrument.  He pointed out that the most common interval in a diatonic scale is the whole step.  Since the index finger is the strongest finger, the first valve is the whole step.  He said that the half step is the next most common interval, and since the middle finger is the next-to-strongest finger, the second valve became the half step.  The only other valve interval that was necessary in order to complete the set of combinations within the interval of a fifth (which is, of course, the largest interval that a brass instrument is designed to play without a valve change, ignoring the fundamental range of the horn) is the minor third,
which became the 3rd valve.  I don't know if you've ever noticed, but the 3rd valve is the same as the first plus second.  I suppose it would be more awkward to use the 3rd valve alone in passages.  Otherwise, why wouldn't it be the standard fingering rather than 1st plus 2nd???

>and (b) an F# in [the oboe's] "natural" scale (L123 R1 plays F#, not the F
>a flute or sax-player would expect).

Ever since I learned oboe, I've thought of the fingering in terms of a six-holed pennywhistle.  With that in mind, the oboe is basically a D instrument, just like the standard pennywhistle in D.  The tonic is in R3, the second or supertonic is in R2, and the major 3rd or Mediant is in R1.  I prefer this kind of thinking as opposed to R1 being a sharped fourth interval to a tonic of C.  And if you notice, the main pinky key lowers the note from D to C#, which is in the key of D.  The low C key is offset and is therefore not supposed to be the main key for R4--at least that is my opinion.

>"Clarino" refers to a style of trumpet playing, where the trumpeter >played
>in the upper registers, taking advantage of the fact that the >partials are
>close enough together to play scale passages (this is
>prior to the invention of valved brass).

So, the high register of the first Clarinet was concentrated on because it was better than the low range, and this was equated to the idea of playing in the "Clarino" register of the valveless trumpet, so when it came time to name this new instrument, they changed the "o" to "et."  Good theory?

Thanks for the info!

-Gregg

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---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:41:41 -0700
From: David Richoux
Subject: [CB] very sad tuba picture today...


I was reading my morning paper and saw the story about the Chechnya brass band in a parade that was hit by a terrorist bomb... ( I don't know if it was on the national news last night, probably was.)

but anyway, here is a link to the story (but with no picture)

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/3236366.htm

Dave Richoux
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 09:45:13 -0700
From: David Richoux
Subject: Re: [CB] very sad tuba picture today...


I  had one important detail wrong in my last message - the parade was in Kaspiisk,
Russia, very near Chechnya...

Dave Richoux

David Richoux wrote:
>
> I was reading my morning paper and saw the story about the Chechnya
>  brass band in a parade that was hit by a terrorist bomb...
> ( I don't know if it was on the national news last night, probably was.)
>
> but anyway, here is a link to the story (but with no picture)
>
> http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/3236366.htm
>
> Dave Richoux
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