Contrabass Digest
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2001-03-07

 
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 01:02:50 +0100
From: "Klaus Bjerre"
Subject: Re: [CB] [CB Digest]

<http://www.earlymusic.gil.com.au/paetzold.htm>

<http://www.theo-physik.uni-kiel.de/%7Eclaussen/greatbass.html>

<http://www.e-m-s.com/cat/recorders/recorder/paetzold.htm>

<http://www.hants.gov.uk/hampshire_recorder_sinfonia/range/range.html>

<http://www.aswltd.com/paetzold.htm>

Just a few Paetzold relevant links. Probably already provided by Grant at an
earlier time.

Yet I have to find a pricelist from a European dealership.

Klaus
 

---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 16:30:19 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] [CB Digest]
Reply-To: contra-new2@contrabass.com

><http://www.e-m-s.com/cat/recorders/recorder/paetzold.htm>
>***
>Yet I have to find a pricelist from a European dealership.
>
>Klaus

Klaus, you were almost there ;-)  EMS has their prices listed on separate pages: for Paetzold, go to http://www.e-m-s.com/cat/pricelist/recorders.htm#baroque and search the page for Paetzold.

The relevant portion, with prices in pounds excluding VAT (and including VAT):


Of course, these may be last year's prices...  If I understand correctly, VAT is charged only for goods being sold within the EEC, and wouldn't be charged for recorders sent to the US from the UK (although there's still the matter of the US import fee).  According to the handy online currency converter (http://195.92.21.129/cgi-bin/xchg011_calculator.pl), £1807 is about US$2590, and should get you down as low as a bari sax.  Although not quite as loud... ;-)

Enjoy!

Grant

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass       http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bret Newton"
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 21:54:13 -0600
Subject: Re: [CB] Sarrusophone!!!!

I hope to be playing the sarrus in our wind ensemble, concert band and
bassoon choir.  Our director is in love with Grainger and I know that some
of his pieces use sarrus.  Incidentally, does anyone know which pieces use
sarrusophone.  I seem to remember that Hill Song 1 uses sopranino and tenor,
but apart from that I'm clueless.  Our orchestra director seems to like the
horn (even better than contrabassoon) and it really adds to the ensemble.
Does anyone else have experience playing sarrus in an orchestral situation
or possible even the Beethoven 5?  If so, I would greatly appreciate some
pointers.
Bret Newton
 

>From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
>Subject: Re: [CB] Sarrusophone!!!!
>Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:28:50 -0700
>
>Bret said:
>>Well, it's now official. I am the resident sarrusophonist for UTA,
>>and will be playing it in several ensembles including the orchestra
>>where it will substitute the contrabassoon on Beethoven's 5th
>>Symphony.  Upon closer look the mouthpiece is not original but a
>>Holton soprano sax mpc. with cork attached (the Elkhart, Ind. threw
>>me off).  If anybody in the DWF area or elsewhere would like to
>>see/play this horn e-mail me privately and I will be more than glad
>>to let someone try it out.
>
>Congratulations!  - Both for finding the horn, and for getting
>approval to play it in public :-)
>
>Which ensembles will you play in, apart from the orchestra?
---------------------------------------------------------

From: Opusnandy
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 00:38:21 EST
Subject: Re: [CB] Sarrusophone!!!!

I know that "Children's March" by Grainger has an Eb Contra Sarrus part, but
you have to make sure it is the right edition.  The older "standard" edition
does not have the Sarrus part or the bass oboe part either.  There is a new
edition out that retains Grainger's original instrumentation.  A few other
Grainger pieces have parts for the Eb Contra as well, but I can't recall
which ones at this moment.

Jon Carreira
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 22:53:57 -0800
From: bitwise
Subject: Re: [CB] Sarrusophone!!!!

I've always liked Grainger's harmonies - I wasn't aware he was
a fan of unusual instruments. In that connection, what about
Holst? Or anyone who scored for "military band" for that matter -
Sarrusophones would have to be in there somewhere.
 I wonder why they haven't become a 'standard' member of the
orchestra.

Craig
 

---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 14:00:12 +0000
From: Terje Lerstad
Subject: Re: [CB] A big recorder (and some other instruments)
 

Grant Green wrote:

> Sounds like the Paetzold recorders: I think they make square
> cross-section recorders in C great bass, F contrabass, C
> subcontrabass, and F sub-subcontrabass.  Dolmetsch is about to
> release its new Millenium C great bass: they haven't posted any
> pictures, but it sounds like its line of large basses will also be
> square cross-section instruments (C great bass down to F
> sub-subcontrabass) - see
> http://www.be-blood.demon.co.uk/millennium.htm.
 

I have a picture from an old catalogue. They are square instruments with 10
keys. I have put a scan at this address:
http://kunst.no/tblerstad/instruments.html (with no direct link from my index.html-page)
It may take some time to load if you have a slow modem.

On the same page I have a picture of a Pinshophone (flute going 1 octave below
alto flute (not recorder)) and a picture of the complete Leblanc set of instruments
from Ab piccolo to Bb octocontrabass.

Terje Lerstad
 
 

---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 14:07:16 +0000
From: Terje Lerstad
Subject: Re: [CB] Contra-alto saga (good news)
 

bitwise wrote:

> Tried a Vandoren #3 reed ($10 ea. - yikes!) on my 1440 contra.
> Better than before, but still difficult to sound. After getting an
> on-line education on clarinet mouthpieces from several different
> sites, I took a straightedge to my GMB #3 mouthpiece.
> Discovered some asymmetries that should not have been there.
> A few strokes of a file took care of that.
>
> Clarinet now speaks easily from low Eb to high F (concert G#4).
> It will likely go higher, but I don't know the fingerings yet.
> Some notes are a little chirpy, but practice should take care of
> that (prior to getting this horn last November, the last time I
> played a contra-alto was for about five minutes 25 or so years
> ago). The overall tone isn't as 'clarinetty' as I would like, so a
> different mouthpiece is still indicated, but the existing unit is now
> much easier to get along with.
>
> Thanks again to all for your information and support. I can now
> devote more attention to my construction project. Does anyone
> know of plastic pipe with thicker walls than schedule 80 PVC?
> I'm thinking a C extension for my 1440 would be a good way to
> get started, so the i.d. and o.d. have to be a fairly close match to
> what is already there.
>
> By the way, the 'pedal clarinet' I saw on ebay appears on closer
> inspection to be a contrabass of more conventional construction.
> But it does have an unusually long crook, and a very large bell, so
> there is a relation there, I think.
>
> Craig
 

For fingerings, try looking at
http://kunst.no/tblerstad/contrabass.html

The Pedal clarinet description seems to match Fontaine-Besson's wooden
contrabass clarinet from 1910, with 3 octave keys, descending to low E
(simple system).

Terje Lerstad
 
 

---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 14:26:19 +0000
From: Terje Lerstad
Subject: Re: [CB] Sarrusophone!!!!
 

Bret Newton wrote:

> I hope to be playing the sarrus in our wind ensemble, concert band and
> bassoon choir.  Our director is in love with Grainger and I know that some
> of his pieces use sarrus.  Incidentally, does anyone know which pieces use
> sarrusophone.  I seem to remember that Hill Song 1 uses sopranino and tenor,
> but apart from that I'm clueless.  Our orchestra director seems to like the
> horn (even better than contrabassoon) and it really adds to the ensemble.
> Does anyone else have experience playing sarrus in an orchestral situation
> or possible even the Beethoven 5?  If so, I would greatly appreciate some
> pointers.
> Bret Newton

As far as I know, Debussy's "La Mer" was originally intended for sarrusophone,
but is mostly played on contrabassoon. Saint-Saëns wrote for it for the first time
in"Les noces de Prométée" (1867), and all his later works is intended for
contrabass sarrusophone, even if he writes "contrebasson".  Other examples are Massenet:
"Esclarmonde, Delius: "Eventyr", Ravel: "Rapsodie espagnole" and Stravinsky: "Threni".

But the biggest repetory is for band.

Terje Lerstad
 

---------------------------------------------------------

From: Opusnandy
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:36:41 EST
Subject: Re: [CB] Sarrusophone!!!!

In a message dated 3/7/01 2:36:43 AM, bitwise writes:

<< I've always liked Grainger's harmonies - I wasn't aware he was
a fan of unusual instruments. In that connection, what about
Holst? Or anyone who scored for "military band" for that matter -
Sarrusophones would have to be in there somewhere.
 I wonder why they haven't become a 'standard' member of the
orchestra. >>

The Sarrusophone (the contra variety at least) started to become a standard
member of the orchestra after its invention, especially in France, as it was
superior to the contrabassoon of the time.  When Heckel made his improvements
to the contrabassoon, the Sarrus fell out of favor.  It still held on for a
while (and even a little bit till today) in some Itallian bands.  Holst, as
far as I know, didn't ever score for sarrusophones, but in the Planets he
does have parts for bass oboe and alto flute.

Jon Carreira
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:37:55 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] Sarrusophone!!!!

>I've always liked Grainger's harmonies - I wasn't aware he was
>a fan of unusual instruments. In that connection, what about
>Holst? Or anyone who scored for "military band" for that matter -
>Sarrusophones would have to be in there somewhere.
> I wonder why they haven't become a 'standard' member of the
>orchestra.

I think most of Grainger's works have been rearranged to distribute
contrabass sarrusophone parts to the contrabass clarinet and/or tuba.
Keith Brion (San Jose State U) is, I believe, the curator for
Grainger's works now, and is busily putting them all into form for
performance.  I played sarrusophone on the Children's March last
year, and discovered that the band had two different arrangements: I
had a sarrusophone part, and a contrabass clarinet part that matched
the arrangement that most of the band used.  The two arrangements
could be played together, as long as you didn't *sing* where the old
version had four part choral segments.  Unfortunately, the tubas all
played the newer version, and doubled most, if not all, of the
sarrusophone parts.  You may be able to contact KB, for information
about which works have significant sarrusophone parts, and to get
copies (or rent) some of the original arrangements.

Percy Grainger apparently liked to consider the wind ensemble as a
pipe organ, with the band sections representing different ranks of
pipes.  If I recall correctly, he advocated using a full range of
each variety of instrument (e.g., piccolo clarinet down to
contrabass, full sax section, etc.), and that he liked the
sarrusophone as an additional woodwind voice distinct from the oboes,
bassoons, saxes, and the rest.  Probably one of the reasons that
Grainger works often have an important soprano sax part.  Still, most
of his arrangements are probably forced into "modern" concert band
format, like a square peg in a round hole, and probably lose some of
their genius and charm.  Soprano sax is common enough that a
publisher will include parts for it (although almost certainly cued
in another part), particularly where it is an important feature of
the original work, but it appears that sarrusophone parts never
survive.

KB told me that Grainger's widow told him that PG had left a whole
closet full of interesting instruments behind when he died, including
a number of sarrusophones and saxophones.  She gave them all away to
museums...

Enjoy!

Grant

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass       http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:43:33 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] Sarrusophone!!!!
 

>contrabassoon) and it really adds to the ensemble.  Does anyone else
>have experience playing sarrus in an orchestral situation or
>possible even the Beethoven 5?  If so, I would greatly appreciate
>some pointers.

Truly an enlightened band director! :-)

I haven't had the opportunity to play sarrusophone in an orchestra
setting, but I'd be prepared to read either treble clef Eb or bass
clef concert pitch.  If you're given a standard contrabassoon part,
you can use the "bari sax trick", reading the bass clef part as if it
were treble clef and adding three sharps to the key signature (and
adjusting accidentals accordingly).  Contrabassoon is written an
octave higher than it sounds, so reading it on Eb contra sarrusophone
puts you in the correct octave.  For anything below written low Db,
you'll just have to jump up an octave.  Fortunately, I think many of
the older works don't use the lowest notes on the contrabassoon
(either because they were really writing for sarrusophone, or because
those notes just weren't as reliable on contrabassoons available at
the time the work was composed).

Enjoy!

Grant

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass       http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
***End of Contrabass Digest***

 
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