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Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 20:29:20 -0500
From: jim & joyce
Subject: [CB] fundingMany many good points. One thought on funding. Perhaps
some of us might have some instruments that could be
auctioned on eBay with all proceeds going to the
foundation. 1) it is easier to donate an instrument than
cash; 2) the auctions might give the enterprise some
publicity and attract new members.I also agree that while an octocontrabass might (might) be
the logical first instrument, we shouldn't get locked in.
What if the the folks at LeBlanc report back that the horns
sounded really bad, couldn't be kept in working condition,
etc. Maybe the elephant sized tuba really would be the
logical first instrument.jim lande
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 18:07:11 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] The Non-Profit SubContra Society
>specific needs. Colleges and universities are another possibility,
>though the farther one goes in that direction, the more likely it
>is that the 'contributor' will want a substantial say in program
>administration (perhaps defeating the purpose?). The same is
>unfortunately true of corporate sponsorship.My impression of corporate sponsorship is that they're mainly
interested in receiving credit for the funding they've provided: I
wouldn't expect them to exert any influence over the activities of
the foundation (other than perhaps steering things by donating
particular instruments).>On the plus side, the more input, the more likely it is that some
>plan can be formulated that will work. I think the basic idea is
>making real progress. [Perhaps Cal Tech would consider sponsor-
>ship - a collection such as Grant envisions could be useful in
>seismic research.]Actually, I was thinking we might get some sponsorship from the oil
companies for that reason ;-) (Big Oil uses seismology to look for
oil deposits)
>How does a contrabass oboe differ from bassoon or contra-
>bassoon (whichever is the range-equivalent)?Timbre and fingering, mainly. A C contrabass oboe should have a
range corresponding to the bassoon (down to B below the bass staff,
if not extended to Bb or A), but I would expect it to have a fairly
different timbre - more reedy, less muffled/covered than the bassoon.
>An addition to the unusual instrument list: the "octo-bass."
>It's an 8-foot contrabass violin, originally built by someone whose
>name escapes me at the moment. It is (was?) playable - just - the
>lower stops having to be operated by foot pedals, as no human
>hand could span the positions.Yep, three strings, and range to low C (C1). Appears on one of
Roscoe Mitchell's CDs, along with bass sax and contrabass
sarrusophone.
>There's also the "sub-double-
>contrabassoon" which is said to bottom out somewhere around
>10 Hz!
>
>Craig
I don't know of a sub-contrabassoon, but it would certainly be
interesting to hear :-)Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 22:17:19 -0800
From: "Timothy J. Tikker"
Subject: Re: [CB] Sardana CoblasJust a word on the instruments which Grant saw on TV in Spain:
You must've seen a Sardana Cobla. The Sardana is the national dance of Catalonia, and the Cobla the
11-piece band which accompanies it.The shawms are called tiple (= treble) and tenor. There are two of each. The tiple is pitched in F,
and the tenor is Bb. The tenor has the same transposition as the soprano sax, then, but is extended
to a written low F#. The tiple only extends to a written low A, though.There are then two C bass fluegelhorns. Anthony Baines wrote in the 1950s that these were usually of
Czech make. I once called the Cerveny rep in the USA asking about these, and he knew of no such
instrument (actually asked me to call him back if I ever found out more, since I got him curious
about them!). From more recent on-line research, it sounds as if these are no longer made and
substitutes have to be found, e.g. euphonia...Finally, there's a valve trombone, and string bass, and a pipe & tabor.
What's curious about the woodwinds (shawms and tabor pipe) is that even though these are
archaic-style instruments tonally, they have modern key systems. The shawms are said to have a huge
dynamic range (unlike renaissance shawms), which Baines says is mp to fff, the latter fully able to
keep up with the trumpets.So... what else do you want to know?
- Tim Tikker
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Heliconman
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 22:52:46 EST
Subject: Re: [CB] fundingIn a message dated 1/3/01 8:31:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, lande writes:
<< What if the the folks at LeBlanc report back that the horns
sounded really bad, couldn't be kept in working condition,
etc. Maybe the elephant sized tuba really would be the
logical first instrument. >>Well Jim, based on my limited playing time on the subcontrabass tuba at
Harvard, I think the LeBlanc instrument would be more a probable "playable"
instrument. Tom Everett, Harvard band leader indicates that all of the last
several soloists on the beast have re-invented their own fingerings in an
attempt to play the thing in tune. In the 15 minutes I was allowed I came
relatively close with the stand series of contrabass or bass tuba fingerings.
I did, however have to blow to the point of hyperventilation to come within a
half a block of the pitch. I couldn't keep that up very long and traded off
with my buddy who also plays tuba. Part of the problem I think was the lack
of a proper subcontrabass tuba mouthpiece as the original had been STOLEN!
The breath support needed is HUGE. I'd be tempted to use a compressor with a
tube leading into my mouth with a pedal controlled pressure regulator.
Otherwise perhaps there is a triathlete out there who might have the lung
capacity to make the beast sing. (Scott Rimm-Hewitt, the guy who ran the
Boston Marathon and hiked the Appalachian Trail with his tuba on his back
perhaps?)
So I'm betting the "Octo-puss" is more playable than the "Brass Ball Buster"
based on my one-sided experience, but on the other hand, perhaps Harvard will
feel compelled to join and support the club if the giant tuba is included in
the plan!
---------------------------------------------------------From: Heliconman
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 23:05:00 EST
Subject: Re: [CB] Sardana CoblasIn a message dated 1/3/01 10:17:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, tjtikker writes:
<< What's curious about the woodwinds (shawms and tabor pipe) is that even
though these are archaic-style instruments tonally, they have modern key
systems. The shawms are said to have a huge dynamic range (unlike
renaissance shawms), which Baines says is mp to fff, the latter fully able to
keep up with the trumpets. >>The Shriners have a "Chinese band" based at one of their temples in New
Hampshire in which they have 30 to 40 guys playing these "Chinese trumpets"
which I guess are alternately called shawms or musettes. These have wooden
bodies with brass bells and have a wonderfully raucous sound. I get to hear
these guys about once every year or two in a local parade. Considering
joining the Shriner's!!!
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 23:25:17 +0000
From: Dave Robinson
Subject: Re: [CB] Fwd: Sarrusophone Player neededLee,
My brother Scott Robinson plays sarrusophone as well as a great many
other odd instruments, woodwind and brass. He is based in New York
City. You can reach him at (201)869-7483.DR
> >From: "Lee Hartman" <pitorch@UDel.Edu>
> >Subject: Sarrusophone Player needed
> >Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:43:12 -0500
> >
> >Hello,
> >
> > This my sound like a very odd request but, my fraternity Phi Mu
> >Alpha Sinfonia is having an "Instruments You don't Hear Everyday
> >Concert" on March 5th. And we are very interested in getting a
> >sarrusophone player to perform on the concert. Do you know of any
> >players around Delaware (we were thinking DC up to NYC). This would
> >be a paying gig and accomodations would be provided. Please let me
> >know if anyones comes to mind and/or other people I should contact.
> >
> >Thanks a lot,
> >
> >Lee Hartman
> >Xi Mu Chapter Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia Music Coordinator
> >+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"
> >Lee Hartman Totally outdated Webpage! AOL PitOrch
> >302-369-9119
> ><http://www.geocities.com/pitorch>www.geocities.com/pitorch
> >Dean Scholar in Music Education Concentration Theory/Composition
> >UDMB Music Coordinator and Tenor Sax 99, 00
> >Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia Sec 00
> >MENC Sec 99, 00
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Tom Izzo"
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 23:36:54 -0600
Subject: Re: [CB] funding> of a proper subcontrabass tuba mouthpiece as the original had been STOLEN!
Probably need to substitute a Trumpet (Instrument bell, not the mp) or a
giant funnel. :-)Personally I'd LOVE to take a crack at that one. Next time I'm in Boston, I'll do that.
(probably Spring) if we ever lose this snow in Chicago.Tom
> The breath support needed is HUGE. I'd be tempted to use a compressor with a
> tube leading into my mouth with a pedal controlled pressure regulator.
> Otherwise perhaps there is a triathlete out there who might have the lung
> capacity to make the beast sing. (Scott Rimm-Hewitt, the guy who ran the
> Boston Marathon and hiked the Appalachian Trail with his tuba on his back
> perhapsAt last, we've found a use for the FFF Vacuum Cleaner with side sucker in
CCC.Spike Jones, Peter Schickele, & Dennis Brain would be(have been) proud!
Tom
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 23:56:36 -0600
From: Robert Groover
Subject: [CB] Jumbo sousaphones on ebayTWO jumbo sousaphones (28" bell, 0.812" bore) are currently listed
on ebay - one brass, one silver.
The sellers say these are rare, so I thought I'd mention theme here.
Robert Groover, 972-380-6333x230
Groover & Assoc.,
17000 Preston Rd. no.230, Dallas 75248
Reg.Pat.Atty., SM IEEE, ECS, Assoc. SPE
---------------------------------------------------------From: Opusnandy
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 01:00:33 EST
Subject: Re: [CB] Fwd: Sarrusophone Player neededTry contacting Johnathan Steen (BassSaxer@aol.com). I believe he lives in
New Jersey and owns a couple of sarrusaphones.Jon Carreira
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Tom Izzo"
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 01:10:01 -0600
Subject: Re: [CB] Forwarded by request (late though it is...)
> >A Chicago hotel is going totally tuba-lur. At noon (CST) Thursday in
> >the lobby of the Palmer House Hilton, 350 tuba players ranging in age
> >from 10 to 80 will perform "Merry TubaChristmas -- A Concert of
> >Christmas Music," orchestrated solely for the tuba. First performed
> >in 1974 at New York's Rockefeller Center, "TubaChristmas" has become
> >an annual -- albeit unusual -- Christmas concert. Created by Indiana
> >Music Professor Harvey Phillips -- known as the "Paganini of the
> >Tuba" -- it's a salute to famed musician Arthur Bell, who was born on
> >Christmas Day 1902, and the late composer Alec Wilder, first arranger
> >of "TubaChristmas," who died on Christmas Eve 1980.Yep, I've done this every year. Bass Tuba, Tenor Tuba, Ophicleide, & once
even brought my Contrabass Trombone. They let me in because I told them it
was a
"Slide Tuba".Tom
(who's played in Tuba Christmases in NYC, Chicago, Rochester NY, Detroit,
Cleveland, Milwaukee, Rockford IL, Woodstock IL, & Naperville IL)---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:52:14 -0500
From: Andrew Stiller
Subject: Re: [CB] Sardana Coblas>Just a word on the instruments which Grant saw on TV in Spain:
>
>You must've seen a Sardana Cobla. The Sardana is the national dance of
>Catalonia, and the Cobla the
>11-piece band which accompanies it.If anyone's interested, there's a picture of such a band in the article on
Spain in New Grove.Of more immediate relevance to this list, there's a Basque folk instrument
called the txalaparta that's a huge wooden thing rather like Harry Partch's
marimba eroica. I thought I saw that in Grove too, but I can't find it
there.
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music PressUt Sol inter planetas, Ita MUSICA inter Artes liberales in medio radiat.
--Heinrich Schuetz, 1640
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:46:17 -0500
From: Andrew Stiller
Subject: Re: [CB] Fwd: Sarrusophone Player needed> This my sound like a very odd request but, my fraternity Phi Mu
>Alpha Sinfonia is having an "Instruments You don't Hear Everyday
>Concert" on March 5th. And we are very interested in getting a
>sarrusophone player to perform on the concert.Along these lines, I was surprised there was no comment on this list RE the
"compose-off" contest on Prairie Home Companion last Saturday. Peter
Schickele and the host of Saint Paul Sunday (I forget his name) were each
told to give the other a list of instruments for which to create a
Christmas carol arrangement, and the resulting pieces were played on the
show. Schickele told his opponent to write for theorbo, cornett, sackbutt,
and gamba (wh. is awfully chaste, for him), while in return he had to write
for serpent, musical saw, and I forget what-all else. A hoot and a half.
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music PressUt Sol inter planetas, Ita MUSICA inter Artes liberales in medio radiat.
--Heinrich Schuetz, 1640
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:43:47 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] Sardana Coblas
Tim said:
>Just a word on the instruments which Grant saw on TV in Spain:
>
>You must've seen a Sardana Cobla. The Sardana is the national dance
>of Catalonia, and the Cobla the 11-piece band which accompanies it.Actually, the dance was performed by four dancers wearing huge
costume heads (looked like they could see out through the neck), and
accompanied by only two players. The two shawms were the same size,
played in thirds.>The shawms are called tiple (= treble) and tenor. There are two of
>each. The tiple is pitched in F,
>and the tenor is Bb. The tenor has the same transposition as the
>soprano sax, then, but is extended
>to a written low F#. The tiple only extends to a written low A, though.The shawms on TV were definitely shorter than soprano saxes, so must
have been tiples. The pitch was certainly high enough. The tenor
sounds interesting: basically the English horn range - but where do
they put all the extra keys?>There are then two C bass fluegelhorns. Anthony Baines wrote in the
>1950s that these were usually of Czech make. I once called the
>Cerveny rep in the USA asking about these, and he knew of no such
>instrument (actually asked me to call him back if I ever found out
>more, since I got him curious
>about them!). From more recent on-line research, it sounds as if
>these are no longer made and
>substitutes have to be found, e.g. euphonia...I only had a quick glimpse of the group with the bass flugels, and
got the impression it was a quintet or sextet (but I may just not
have seen the entire group). The dancers in this case wore very tall
costumes, making characters that looked about 15 feet tall, with
loose swinging arms. The instruments did not sound like valve bones,
and looked similar to rotary cornets (held horizontally) with wide
bells. In very brightly polished silver.I think any trip to Spain (for me, at least) will be at least a year
away. Catalonia, you say? Hmmmm....Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:48:56 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] monster brass
>The breath support needed is HUGE. I'd be tempted to use a compressor with a
>tube leading into my mouth with a pedal controlled pressure regulator.Sounds like a good way to rupture one's eardrums (if unsuccessful),
and everyone else's eardrums (if successful)...Perhaps we should start with a sub-contrabass cimbasso? I think Carl
(http://www.euronet.nl/users/tubaness/how-to.htm) could probably
assemble one in his garage over the weekend ;-)Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 10:52:05 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] Shriners
>The Shriners have a "Chinese band" based at one of their temples in New
>Hampshire in which they have 30 to 40 guys playing these "Chinese trumpets"
>which I guess are alternately called shawms or musettes. These have wooden
>bodies with brass bells and have a wonderfully raucous sound. I get to hear
>these guys about once every year or two in a local parade. Considering
>joining the Shriner's!!!I've played something like that at Lark in the Morning: basically a
short (12"?) wooden body with evenly spaced fingerholes, a removable
brass bell, and a stiff reed on a pirouette. I think they're called
zurna or suona or something similar. Honk on it, and everyone in the
store (and probably for several blocks around) stops what they're
doing...Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:52:08 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] PHC
Andrew said:
>Along these lines, I was surprised there was no comment on this list RE the
>"compose-off" contest on Prairie Home Companion last Saturday. Peter
>Schickele and the host of Saint Paul Sunday (I forget his name) were each
>told to give the other a list of instruments for which to create a
>Christmas carol arrangement, and the resulting pieces were played on the
>show. Schickele told his opponent to write for theorbo, cornett, sackbutt,
>and gamba (wh. is awfully chaste, for him), while in return he had to write
>for serpent, musical saw, and I forget what-all else. A hoot and a half.Now I'm *really* mad at Air France... ;-)
I suspect that the instrumentation was limited to what they had
available at the time (although I'm amazed they had a theorbo lying
around) - otherwise, we could have ended up with another "Annie
Laurie Variations" (shades of Hoffnung!). Just imagine: "O
Tannenbaum" for 15 ophicleides, sarrusophone, Uillean pipes, vacuum
cleaner, and Ab clarinet...Fortunately for me (and everyone else who missed it), one can hear
that show via web at
http://phc.glass.mpr.org/performances/20001223/index.shtmlThanks for bringing it up!
Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 16:15:53 -0500
From: Andrew Stiller
Subject: Re: [CB] PHC>I suspect that the instrumentation was limited to what they had
>available at the time (although I'm amazed they had a theorbo lying
>around)Actually, the show was done in NYC, and the rules for the compose-off
stipulated that the instruments had to be selected from those available in
the musicians' union directory for that city.Schickele walked away with the prize, both in my opinion and in that of the
live audience. Despite being given a terribly unwieldy and unbalanced
quartet to work with, he made a convincing and attractive piece of music
with them.If anybody goes to hear it at the web site, please remind me (and us) what
the other two instruments in his quartet were. Also which Xmas carol he
set.
Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music PressUt Sol inter planetas, Ita MUSICA inter Artes liberales in medio radiat.
--Heinrich Schuetz, 1640
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 16:23:24 -0800
From: "Timothy J. Tikker"
Subject: [CB] [Fwd: [CB Digest]]More good ideas from Dr H:
Dr H wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Timothy J. Tikker wrote:
> }List Server wrote:
> }> Might I suggest as such a general purpose the creation of a depository of
> }> large, rare instruments from wh. composers (performers, ensembles) might
> }> borrow? An endless source of frustration to me has been the advance
> }> planning necessary to get, e.g., a cbcl into an orchestra when needed for a
> }> piece of mine. The logistics involved usually require some six months
> }> advance planning, and orchs. are just not set up to work on individual
> }> performances that far in advance.
> }>
> }> It would certainly encourage more new compositions for these instruments if
> }> composers knew for sure that, should they write for cbcl or bass sax or
> }> heckelphone or whatever, that one would definitely be available.
>
> This is good, but I think the "contrabass" theme should be stressed.
> Else you become a repository for "large" instruments such as the
> chromatic concert harp, bagpipes, out-sized vibraphones, and the hardart ;-)
>
> How about a society dedicated to contrabass intruments, their literature,
> and technique? A contrabass instrument repository is a great idea, but
> another worthy and less expen$ive pursuit could be the building of a
> library of music featuring such instruments, and of literature concerning
> the history, lore, and technique of such instruments.
>
> Dr H---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 15:03:22 -0800
From: Dave Richoux
Subject: Re: [CB] ShrinersI found a small " Chinese trumpet" is a music store in Hong Kong in 1969. I
sort-of played it until the double reed wore out, then I fit a trumpet mouthpiece
to it using a bit of brass tube. WOW! I can get some really strong tones and the
flexibily / range is very interesting. easier to play than a Cornette, and louder.Dave Richoux
Grant Green wrote:
> I've played something like that at Lark in the Morning: basically a
> short (12"?) wooden body with evenly spaced fingerholes, a removable
> brass bell, and a stiff reed on a pirouette. I think they're called
> zurna or suona or something similar. Honk on it, and everyone in the
> store (and probably for several blocks around) stops what they're
> doing...---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:22:51 -0500
From: michael c grogg
Subject: [CB] funding Elephant tubas> << What if the the folks at LeBlanc report back that the horns
> sounded really bad, couldn't be kept in working condition,
> etc. Maybe the elephant sized tuba really would be the
> logical first instrument. >>
...
> I did, however have to blow to the point of hyperventilation to come
> within a half a block of the pitch. I couldn't keep that up very long and
> traded off with my buddy who also plays tuba. Part of the problem I think was
> the lack of a proper subcontrabass tuba mouthpiece as the original had been
> STOLEN!
That mouthpiece has been reported as stolen for years. I am surprised
that someone by now has made a new mouthpiece for it, instead of trying
to adapt something else to it. The basic limiting factors are known, the
size of the receiver on the instrument, and the size of the human mouth
that would have to interface with it. With all the talented custom MP
makers in the country, it shouldn't be that hard to turn one out.Maybe the list would like to commission a new mouthpiece in trade for
playing rights on the Harvard tuba?MG
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