Contrabass Digest
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2001-01-03

 
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 19:31:18 -0800
From: "Timothy J. Tikker"
Subject: Re: [CB] [CB Digest]

List Server wrote:

> Might I suggest as such a general purpose the creation of a depository of
> large, rare instruments from wh. composers (performers, ensembles) might
> borrow? An endless source of frustration to me has been the advance
> planning necessary to get, e.g., a cbcl into an orchestra when needed for a
> piece of mine. The logistics involved usually require some six months
> advance planning, and orchs. are just not set up to work on individual
> performances that far in advance.
>
> It would certainly encourage more new compositions for these instruments if
> composers knew for sure that, should they write for cbcl or bass sax or
> heckelphone or whatever, that one would definitely be available.
>
> Andrew Stiller

That's an excellent idea.  It's amazing how rare some instruments are.  I know that when the
Charleston (South Carolina) Symphony needed a bass oboe, their English Horn player had to get one
from a friend in New York.  One somewhat closer was available for rental, but she said it was
horrible.

Same orchestra rented lots of esoteric for a performance last June of Messiaen's Et Expecto
Resurrectionem.  The expense and advance planning required prevented them from doing it two years
before.  I'm sure they're not alone in being limited in what is available instrument wise for many
different works.

We could start with the octobass clarinet, and add instruments as we could afford to.

As I quoted myself earlier, I had suggested the idea half in fun, but I also see the idea as a
very serious possibility, if any of us are going ever to hear such an instrument, let alone see it
get used as it deserves.  And of course I'm willing to chip in my contribution should the time
come.

Another suggestion:  we could write to Leblanc in French, rather than English.  I can help there.
I'll also get some advice from France as to how to ensure that our letter is worded so that it's
taken seriously, and not judged some bizzare prank!

- Tim Tikker
 

---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 16:10:08 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] Return of the Sarrusophone
 

I believe that CDs will be available, as before.  Unfortunately, I
was unable to make the afternoon (recorded) gig - due to family Xmas
party scheduling, I only played in the afternoon (park) performance.
I'll see if I can find the info.

Grant
 

>Grant,
>
>Will CDs again be available?
>
>DR
>
> > Last Saturday was the annual San Jose Saxophone Christmas, this year
> > attended by 173 saxophone (and one sarrusophone) players.  One curved
> > Eb sopranino, 3 basses, my contrabass sarrusophone, and the rest
> > sopranos, altos, tenors, and baris.  A few of the works (I played
> > from a bari part) end with a nice low (written) Bb: enough to invoke
> > that contrabassoon feeling, of playing the sole pedal for an entire
> > ensemble, with the next nearest note an octave above.

---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 16:47:12 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: [CB] The Non-Profit SubContra Society
 

Perhaps I should take off on vacation more often ;-)  I came back,
read through all the accumulated digests in the process of archiving
them (they're now posted), and discover some *very* interesting
proposals.

I'm afraid that $100/subscriber won't do it, despite the immense
appeal of such an idea.  First off, the number of subscribers here
varies between about 200 and 250 people, of which many simply will
not be interested or won't be in a position to contribute.  Many
subscribers are brass players, and not necessarily interested in
monster clarinets, and many of our subscribers are students (high
school and younger) and may not have the means to contribute (even
where interested).  Second, .... I'm sure I had a second point here,
but I'm still getting over the jet lag ;-)

I really like the ideas below: establishing a foundation/organization
for acquiring the instruments (plural!), maintaining them, and making
them available for performance/composition use.  To this I would add:
training musicians to play them.  The horns would be no use without
skilled performers to make them sing.  Or rumble.  Or to exhibit
non-linear acoustic behavior that can't be imitated easily by
synthesizers.

Potential (ideal?) goals of the foundation:

Did I leave anything out?

Most of us are probably not wealthy enough to entertain the idea of
funding such an organization personally to any significant degree.
However, it could be possible to find corporate and/or government
sponsorship.  Once established, it might be possible to arrange
something like a "permanent loan" of instruments like the
octocontrabass clarinet from Leblanc.  The various larger instrument
makers might be induced to sponsor or otherwise contribute funding
for such an undertaking.  I imagine that individual contributors
might also receive certain "special privileges", for example, free
time on the instruments, check out when not otherwise committed,
etc....

Fund-raising is not my forte.  Are there any subscribers experienced
in this area?

Finally, we need a name.  "The Infrasonic Society"?  "The Sub
Basement Foundation"?  Suggestions?

Grant

>form a general-purpose
> > group like a "Sub Contrabass Society" or some such, with the broader goal
> > of promoting interest in instruments in this class.  The
>sub-contra clarinet
> > could simply be the corporation's /first/ specified project.
>
>Might I suggest as such a general purpose the creation of a depository of
>large, rare instruments from wh. composers (performers, ensembles) might
>borrow? An endless source of frustration to me has been the advance
>planning necessary to get, e.g., a cbcl into an orchestra when needed for a
>piece of mine. The logistics involved usually require some six months
>advance planning, and orchs. are just not set up to work on individual
>performances that far in advance.
>
>It would certainly encourage more new compositions for these instruments if
>composers knew for sure that, should they write for cbcl or bass sax or
>heckelphone or whatever, that one would definitely be available.
>
>Andrew Stiller
>Kallisti Music Press

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass       http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 17:01:25 -0700
From: Grant Green <
Subject: [CB] Trip Report
 

Unfortunately, not much to report.  We spent most of the last two
weeks in Strasbourg, France (with side trips to the Black Forest,
Riquewir, etc.), but the most interesting instruments I saw during
the entire trip were on TV from Spain in the hotel room.  Apparently
a special on Spanish festivals, the program showed a couple of
Spanish shawms (looked like short tarogatos, played in harmony) and
an ensemble that appeared to include a bass flugelhorn or two
(certainly sounded like one).  Definitely interested in visiting
Spain sometime in the future.  The Strasbourg cathedral does have a
nice organ: I have a CD of it in performance, but haven't had time to
give it a fair listen yet.

Due to flight difficulties (specifically, Air France got us from
Strasbourg to Paris, and then bumped us off their sole daily flight
to San Francisco), we only arrived home late on the 31st: my
biological clock is still somewhere over the Atlantic.  I've spent
today catching up on messages, adding a few subscribers, and
listening to a few excellent CDs that arrived during my absence
(about which, more later).

So, the next interesting trip is Vienna (several months from now,
when my daughter's band travels there for a few performances): is
there anything there that is a "contrabass must-see"?  Now is the
time for me to start inserting goals into the schedule... ;-)

Grant

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass       http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------

From: Opusnandy
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 21:14:22 EST
Subject: Re: [CB] Trip Report

Grant,

I know this "contrabass-must-see" requires a time machine, but if you were in
Paris, why not go over to LeBlanc and visit the octocontrabass and
octocontraalto clarinets?  (asked half in jest; I'm visiting Paris next year
and want to try and see them, if at all possible).

Jon Carreira
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 03:29:32 +0100
From: "Klaus Bjerre"
Subject: Re: [CB] Trip Report

>From: Grant Green
> but the most interesting instruments I saw during
> the entire trip were on TV from Spain in the hotel room.  Apparently
> a special on Spanish festivals, the program showed a couple of
> Spanish shawms (looked like short tarogatos, played in harmony)

Were they in A?

> and
> an ensemble that appeared to include a bass flugelhorn or two
> (certainly sounded like one).

Where they much different from what can be seen in the Drum and Bugle Corps in your country?

Germany and Austria have some tradition for using rotary bass flugelhorns in ensembles.

> So, the next interesting trip is Vienna (several months from now,
> when my daughter's band travels there for a few performances): is
> there anything there that is a "contrabass must-see"?  Now is the
> time for me to start inserting goals into the schedule... ;-)

The Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra has it own tradition in tubas. And to
cover contrabass trombone parts from Wagner and cimbasso parts from Verdi,
the tuba player had a new valved instrument constructed for him. Same bore
and layout of the valve section as in the tuba, but of course a narrower
bore on the road to the bell, which has a quite unique design, somewhat like
the buccina.

If somebody would be able to tell me the exact principles of fingering in
the Viennese tuba, I would be glad. In relatively plain words, please.

Klaus
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 03:32:05 +0100
From: "Klaus Bjerre"
Subject: Re: [CB] The Non-Profit SubContra Society

>From: Grant Green
> Fund-raising is not my forte.  Are there any subscribers experienced
> in this area?

Not to be a game spoiler, but:

I have been into managing at musicschool and band levels. In my country, the
state has a bank of instruments, that are rarely privately owned, but which
are essential to ensemble playing. Even the less exotic instuments discussed
on this list are relevant in this context.

But the bank demands the receivers to be organised so well that they can
provide insurance and professional maintenace.

Alone those posts on a budget would demand quite an amount of steady money
supply.

Over here I have been into some fund raising. However such skills probably
are of a very nation specific type.

Do you have federal universities? They might provide a relevant
infrastructure for the project.

All the best for the good idea (even if I will not benefit from it as a
European brassist).

Klaus
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 23:15:57 -0800
From: "Timothy J. Tikker"
Subject: Re: [CB] octobass clarinet

Another thought re negotiation with Leblanc:  what might be even better than a letter to start
would be having a friend of mine living in Paris go meet with them directly.  The fellow I have in
mind is a fine composer -- recently won a French national composition award, even though he's
British -- and a very intelligent and civilized sort who knows his way around the music scene
well.  I'll ask him if he'd be willing to help.

- Tim Tikker

---------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tom Izzo"
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 01:54:12 -0600
Subject: Re: [CB] Trip Report

> > and
> > an ensemble that appeared to include a bass flugelhorn or two
> > (certainly sounded like one).
>
Almost missed this one.

Speaking of bass flugelhorns, See Jim Self's website. He had a FLUBA made.
It's a Contrabass Flugelhorn.
http://www.bassethoundmusic.com/fluba.html
 

Tom
 
 

---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 00:10:55 -0800
From: bitwise
Subject: Re: [CB] The Non-Profit SubContra Society

Welcome back, Grant.

I think you've identified the central problem with the plan we've
been talking about (i.e. insufficient number of subscribers).
However, the plan you propose could be workable. I should
think large orchestras would be willing contributors, especially
if they are thus aided in procuring unusual instruments for
specific needs. Colleges and universities are another possibility,
though the farther one goes in that direction, the more likely it
is that the 'contributor' will want a substantial say in program
administration (perhaps defeating the purpose?). The same is
unfortunately true of corporate sponsorship.

On the plus side, the more input, the more likely it is that some
plan can be formulated that will work. I think the basic idea is
making real progress. [Perhaps Cal Tech would consider sponsor-
ship - a collection such as Grant envisions could be useful in
seismic research.]

How does a contrabass oboe differ from bassoon or contra-
bassoon (whichever is the range-equivalent)?

An addition to the unusual instrument list: the "octo-bass."
It's an 8-foot contrabass violin, originally built by someone whose
name escapes me at the moment. It is (was?) playable - just - the
lower stops having to be operated by foot pedals, as no human
hand could span the positions. There's also the "sub-double-
contrabassoon" which is said to bottom out somewhere around
10 Hz!

Craig

---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 00:59:44 -0800
From: David Flager
Subject: Re: [CB] [CB Digest]

I'll do my part & become a member of a subcontrabass society, & like I
said will contribute some funds.

Grant will you (for the time at hand) keep a running list of those
offering to help form this group ?? & will the parties that are informed
on this subject of forming this type of org. make it so, once we have a
list of members??

This is so NOT my area of knowledge that I would not be the one to be at
the forefront of forming this thing. even though I wish to be a part of
it. I am a member of several musical societies & I feel that these
groups do their good in this world but I am more "member" material, not
organizer.

David F.
---------------------------------------------------------

From: Heliconman
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 06:49:20 EST
Subject: [CB] Flug-o-mania

In a message dated 1/3/01 1:56:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, jeanvaljean writes:

<< > > and
 > > an ensemble that appeared to include a bass flugelhorn or two
 > > (certainly sounded like one).
 
I have been playing a King Bb flugabone a lot lately with my funky second
line brass band. I've always thought of this horn as a bass flugel. Or at
least a tenor flugel. It uses a standard trombone mouthpiece. It was much
easier to keep warm this new year's eve than a trombone. I wrapped it in
plastic wrap and used lock de-icer (mostly methanol) on the valves. Standing
next to the bonfire was a big help too (in Sturbridge, MA). We basically
abandoned the bandstand since everyone was around the bonfire anyway. The
advantages of being in a marching band!
By the way, I'd been using a marching baritone before that (which Grant
bought from me when I discovered the flugabone!). It's got a darker sound but
it's a bit heavier to carry around. Still, the marching baritone would be an
awfully nice horn to use on the occasional jazz or blues ballad. Another
advantage of the flugabone is that standard trombone mutes fit nicely.

>> Speaking of bass flugelhorns, See Jim Self's website. He had a FLUBA made.
 It's a Contrabass Flugelhorn.
 http://www.bassethoundmusic.com/fluba.html
 
  Tom >>

What exactly is it that defines a horn as a flugel? Conical bore or a
combination conical and cylindrical or what? I've been playing with the idea
of getting some higher pitched company for the fluga. Nice sound!
Fluba, huh?! Does anyone make a slide flugelhorn????????
That would certainly be good company for both my flugabone AND my recently
acquired Finke alto sackbutt. Maybe I need to find a beat up flugelhorn and
fit the bell section with a linkage to an alto slide.
Okay! I'm tired now. Been up all night taking down Christmas displays at the
local mall. But now I have visions of flugel-plums to dance in my head!
Good night all!
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 15:28:32 +0100
From: "Klaus Bjerre"
Subject: Re: [CB] Flug-o-mania

>From: Heliconman
> I have been playing a King Bb flugabone a lot lately with my funky second
> line brass band.

That model name mostly depicts the flugelhornlike wrapping. Corresponding
models from other makers are called marching trombones, which are
trumpet/flugel shaped tightly wrapped valve trombones having slightly larger
bores and bells than bass trumpets.

> What exactly is it that defines a horn as a flugel? Conical bore or a
> combination conical and cylindrical or what?

The conical main tubing is the defining factor. A very short, conical
(tuning-) leadpipe leads to a narrow bore valve section, which is the only
cylindrical part of the tubing. From the valve section through the bell
there is a constant expansion. Only the rate of expansion is not constant.

> I've been playing with the idea
> of getting some higher pitched company for the fluga. Nice sound!
> Fluba, huh?! Does anyone make a slide flugelhorn????????

Almost no makers, with DEG as an exception, are placing tuning slides in the
main tubing bow of their flugelhorns. The reason is that such a tuning slide
would spoil the unbroken bore expansion from valve section through bell.

Replacing the valve section with a slide would spoil the conical character
of a flugelhorn even more, as a slide requires a very large part of the main
tubing to be cylindrical. (Yes I know, that the inside tubing of the first
slide branch can be made conical).

The soprano trombones I have seen, I even own one, have quite short bell
sections. There are parts of handslides that can not be diminished
proportionally when downsizing from tenor to soprano, so these handslides
take a proportionally longer part of the main tubing in small trombones.
That would leave very little bell length for a full expansion to  a
flugelhorn bell with.

These reasons are the same, that there are no slide euphoniums, nor slide
tubas.

The only slided euphonium I ever saw, was in a film clip from the Disney
cartoon movie sound workshop. A full euph with a tromb slide connected was
used to illustrate the rage of Donald Duck.

Klaus
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 10:49:20 -0500
From: Andrew Stiller
Subject: Re: [CB] The Non-Profit SubContra Society

>Finally, we need a name.  "The Infrasonic Society"?  "The Sub
>Basement Foundation"?  Suggestions?

If we're actually going to do this, I would caution against tying the thing
too closely to the idea of contrabassness. The bass flute, e.g., is hardly
"infrasonic" even in metaphor. Further, there are some instruments at the
altissimo end (the flutes in high Eb and G, frinstance, and the Ab clar.)
that would be well worth the attention of such an organization. Obviously,
most of the instruments involved would be large ones, but I think that
aspect would follow automatically from the purposes of the proposed
?foundation, and needs no special emphasis.
 

Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press

http://www.kallistimusic.com

Ut Sol inter planetas, Ita MUSICA inter Artes liberales in medio radiat.
--Heinrich Schuetz, 1640
 

---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 15:36:23 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: [CB] Forwarded by request (late though it is...)

>From: "David Neubauer"
>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 15:51:02 -0800
>
>A Chicago hotel is going totally tuba-lur.  At noon (CST) Thursday in
>the lobby of the Palmer House Hilton, 350 tuba players ranging in age
>from 10 to 80 will perform "Merry TubaChristmas -- A Concert of
>Christmas Music," orchestrated solely for the tuba.  First performed
>in 1974 at New York's Rockefeller Center, "TubaChristmas" has become
>an annual -- albeit unusual -- Christmas concert.  Created by Indiana
>Music Professor Harvey Phillips -- known as the "Paganini of the
>Tuba" -- it's a salute to famed musician Arthur Bell, who was born on
>Christmas Day 1902, and the late composer Alec Wilder, first arranger
>of "TubaChristmas," who died on Christmas Eve 1980.
>
>David Neubauer
>www.dnmagic.com

---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 15:45:41 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: [CB] Fwd: Sarrusophone Player needed
 

Here's a request you don't hear every day:

>From: "Lee Hartman" <pitorch@UDel.Edu>
>Subject: Sarrusophone Player needed
>Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 13:43:12 -0500
>
>Hello,
>
>    This my sound like a very odd request but, my fraternity Phi Mu
>Alpha Sinfonia is having an "Instruments You don't Hear Everyday
>Concert" on March 5th.  And we are very interested in getting a
>sarrusophone player to perform on the concert.  Do you know of any
>players around Delaware (we were thinking DC up to NYC).  This would
>be a paying gig and accomodations would be provided.  Please let me
>know if anyones comes to mind and/or other people I should contact.
>
>Thanks a lot,
>
>Lee Hartman
>Xi Mu Chapter Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia Music Coordinator
>+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"+"
>Lee Hartman         Totally outdated  Webpage!     AOL  PitOrch
>302-369-9119
>www.geocities.com/pitorch
>Dean Scholar in Music Education Concentration Theory/Composition
>UDMB Music Coordinator and Tenor Sax 99, 00
>Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia Sec 00
>MENC Sec 99, 00

***End of Contrabass Digest***

 
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