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Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 18:56:43 -0400
From: michael c grogg <mgrogg @ juno.com>
Subject: Re: [CB] Newbie Questions> >3. In the lowest half octave, my eyes/eyeglasses/head vibrate
> >so much that I can't read the music. Is this normal? If not,
> >any idea what is going wrong? If so, are there any known adverse
> >long term effects?
>
> This is perfectly normal. I don't know if anyone has yet determined
>
> whether it is the eyes or the glasses that shake (I can barely see
> the page without my glasses, much less the dancing notes). The only
>
> drawback iss tthhaat eevveennttuuallyy yyoouu bbeeggiinn ttoo ssee
> ddoouubbllee......It can also have something to do with your lighting. If you have
flourescent lights, they have a usually un-noticed flicker at 60Hz. When
you start approaching that figure on your instrument, the interfererance
pattern makes things really shake. Try playing in front of your computer
monitor, and you will notice certain notes will make the screen image go
wild. The same things happen to me on tuba, but with an incadesent stand
light, most of the problem goes away.Michael
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---------------------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 16:30:28 -0700
From: "Chuck Guzis" <tubastuff @ sydex.com>
Subject: Re: [CB] Newbie QuestionsOn 6/7/00, michael c grogg wrote:
>It can also have something to do with your lighting. If you have
>flourescent lights, they have a usually un-noticed flicker at 60Hz. When
>you start approaching that figure on your instrument, the interfererance
>pattern makes things really shake. Try playing in front of your computer
>monitor, and you will notice certain notes will make the screen image go
>wild. The same things happen to me on tuba, but with an incadesent stand
>light, most of the problem goes away.The flicker is actually at 120 Hz (the lamp conducts on both halves of the=
cycle) or 100 Hz outside of North America and Japan, where the power line=
frequency is 50 Hz. In my college days, I used to work in a mill where 25=
Hz power was used for lighting and the mercury-vapor lights used to drive=
me nuts. Probably accounts for my personality today...Cheers,
Chuck---------------------------------------------------------
From: LeliaLoban @ aol.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 19:51:21 EDT
Subject: [CB] Newbie QuestionsRichard Engelbrecht-Wiggans wrote of a Vito contrabass clarinet,
>2. Going below the low Bb, everything get progressively flatter.
>(The two octaves from low C on up are right on pitch.) More air
>helps a bit, but I'm already hyperventilating. Tightening my
>embouchure any further simply seals the reed shut (#3 Ricos on
>the (stock?) Vito mouthpiece.) Any suggestions?I've never played a Vito contrabass, but some clarinets (and some individual
instruments within a brand) have very wide twelfths built in. It's just the
way they're constructed, and there may not be a whole lot you can do about
it. Sometimes "cold air" (narrowing the oral cavity) can raise the pitch a
little. If possible with such a big instrument, try lifting the bell up a
tad on those low notes (changing the position of the mouthpiece so that
there's less of your lower lip on the reed). That works for me on soprano
clarinet, although I don't know if it's feasible on a big honker.Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans wrote,
>3. In the lowest half octave, my eyes/eyeglasses/head vibrate
>so much that I can't read the music. Is this normal? If not,
>any idea what is going wrong? If so, are there any known adverse
>long term effects?Grant Green wrote,
>>This is perfectly normal. I don't know if anyone has yet determined
>>whether it is the eyes or the glasses that shake (I can barely see
>>the page without my glasses, much less the dancing notes).It's gotta be the eyes (I can hear my morbid grade school classmates in the
dinosaur days intoning, "Remember, the eye is a part of the brain..."),
because I see the usual bass-induced visual effects when I play bass sax,
though I don't wear glasses for music. When I tried to research this subject
about two years ago, I couldn't find any luridly alarming studies about bass
wind players' brains liquifying and leaking out their ears or their eyeballs
turning to Tapioca Pudding or anything like that. Maybe we're doing
ourselves some good by exercising some weird muscles most people never find.
Or something. <shrug> Ah well, it's a drug-free trip, and talking about it
is an easy way to impress the piccolo players.... On bass sax, I've found
that with really low-pitched scores, it's easier to memorize the music than
to try to read it when I'm playing it.G-g-g-gooood-d-d-d l-l-luuuck-k-k-k....
Lelia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you are driving at the speed of light and you turn on your headlights,
what happens?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 02:14:22 +0100
From: "Klaus Bjerre" <K-Bone @ vip.cybercity.dk>
Subject: Re: [CB] Newbie QuestionsAll of the previous answers to the question below have been very true.
However there is one more aspect, which I most have experienced when doing
my very low bassbone rutines after having been outdoors in anything but
pleasant sunny and warm weather.The degree to which the outer facial layers are tranmitting vibrations from
the mouth/lip area to the nose/chinbone area is very much dependable on the
flexibility of the skin tissue.If my glasses are taking part in a more or less sympathetic vibration. Or if
my nostril hairs are causing a less than pleasant itching, then a lot of the
problem can be reduced by giving my face, including the nose, a thorough
double sided rubbing. Glasses removed during the process. The resulting feel
is nice anyway.Klaus
----------
>From: engelbrecht-wiggans richard <eplus17 @ uiuc.edu>
>To: contrabass@contrabass.com
>
> 3. In the lowest half octave, my eyes/eyeglasses/head vibrate
> so much that I can't read the music. Is this normal? If not,
> any idea what is going wrong? If so, are there any known adverse
> long term effects?
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 21:29:16 -0700
From: jim & joyce <lande @ erols.com>
Subject: [CB] scrambled eggs>>3. In the lowest half octave, my eyes/eyeglasses/head
>>vibrate so much that I can't read the music. Is this normal?
>>If not, any idea what is going wrong? If so, are there
>>any known adverse long term effects?Think very carefully about the odd stuff you see
posted by folks on this list. Put two and two together.jim lande
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 18:39:42 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen @ contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: [CB] Newbie QuestionsAt 06:56 PM 6/7/00 -0400, you wrote:
>It can also have something to do with your lighting. If you have
>flourescent lights, they have a usually un-noticed flicker at 60Hz. When
>you start approaching that figure on your instrument, the interfererance
>pattern makes things really shake. Try playing in front of your computer
>monitor, and you will notice certain notes will make the screen image go
>wild. The same things happen to me on tuba, but with an incadesent stand
>light, most of the problem goes away.If it was the lighting, then just sitting in the same room with the tuba
(while its being played) should cause the effect: the entire band would
complain. The effect does happen with monitors and TV sets, but I suspect
by a different mechanism.Grant
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Fmmck @ aol.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 23:19:57 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Newbie QuestionsIn a message dated 6/7/00 4:49:07 PM, eplus17 @ uiuc.edu writes:
<< if I plug the bell end,
finger the low Eb and suck on the mouthpiece, things seem about
as airtight as on the bass clarinet which gives me no problems. >>Richard-
This may be a good test, but I would worry that the effect of sucking is not
a good substitute for blowing. Consider that the normal way the instrument
operates, is with greater air pressure inside than outside. By blowing, a
slight leak might be made worse, while sucking might tend to improve the
pads' seals.I used to keep a large leather Saxophone pad in my Bass Clarinet case, just
to do such a leak test. I would use it to seal the bottom of a joint, finger
all the keys and blow into the opposite end. I could hear the air escaping
from a leak. Of course this will force open a perfectly good pad. You have
to learn to judge whether it happens as a result of blowing too hard, as a
result of a leak or as the result of a weak spring.Fred McKenzie
MMB
---------------------------------------------------------From: "L.D. Jackson" <mus_ldj @ hal.lamar.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 22:12:46 -0500
Subject: Re: [CB] Newbie QuestionsDo they or is there a site for the Eb clarinet?
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Fmmck @ aol.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 23:45:31 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Newbie Questions
In a message dated 6/7/00 7:10:47 PM, mgrogg @ juno.com writes:
<< It can also have something to do with your lighting. If you have
flourescent lights, they have a usually un-noticed flicker at 60Hz. When
you start approaching that figure on your instrument, the interfererance
pattern makes things really shake. >>Michael-
If this stroboscopic effect is what causes things to shake, then it will be
noticed on other notes that have a simple harmonic relationship with 60 Hz.
First, someone noted that the light actually flickers at 120 Hz. I think the
effect would also be noticed for harmonic and subharmonic frequencies, such
as 20 Hz, 30 Hz, 40 Hz, 240 Hz et cetera.Since you got me started on this, will someone verify my assumptions about
the frequencies of the instruments? Is Concert A 440 Hz the A above middle
C? If so, then I calculate that the Bass Clarinet, which has music written
an octave above its actual sound, would go down to 69.30 Hz for its low Eb.
The BBb Contra Bass Clarinet would go down to 34.65 Hz for low Eb.I've never noticed the music shake when playing the Bass, only the Contra
Bass. Therefore the notes that do it are probably in the range of low C
(58.27 Hz) and lower.Fred McKenzie
MMB
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Tom Izzo" <jeanvaljean @ ntsource.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 00:22:11 -0500
Subject: Re: [CB] Newbie QuestionsOK, Now you got me!
----- Original Message -----
From: L.D. Jackson <mus_ldj @ hal.lamar.edu>
>
> Do they or is there a site for the Eb clarinet?Do "they"?
Who is they?Tom
---------------------------------------------------------
From: marvin roberts <mendel6 @ juno.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 09:57:05 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] [Contra digest]I wear contacts and sometimes after playing the contra bassoon, espcially
on long, low notes everything jiggles - including my brain. DonnaK>3. In the lowest half octave, my eyes/eyeglasses/head vibrate
>>so much that I can't read the music. Is this normal? If not,
>>any idea what is going wrong? If so, are there any known adverse
>>long term effects?
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 08:33:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: JJ McLallen <jam_ump10r @ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [CB] [Contra digest]> 1. The first note after crossing the break--either
> direction--
> is virtually guarenteed to be an ugly squawk.
The one time that I repadded a contra (Leblanc
paperclip) I found that any teeny weeny, eensy weensy
leak anywhere towards the top half of the instrument
will cause that squeak on the middle B. Other than
that, the reed an/or mouthpiece may cause some
problems there too. I'd follow Grant's advice.
JJ - the young repair tech
__________________________________________________
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---------------------------------------------------------From: "Alex von Weurth-Hart" <wildwind37 @ hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:04:23 CDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Newbie QuestionsI have played the CB Clarinet for a couple years now, and it seems that you
just need to strengthen your diaphram muscles. If you don't get enough air
with enough pressure through the horn, it will sound a horrendous squawk.>From: engelbrecht-wiggans richard <eplus17 @ uiuc.edu>
>Subject: [CB] Newbie Questions
>Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:47:11 -0500 (CDT)
>
>Hi,
>
***
>2. Going below the low Bb, everything get progressively flatter.
>(The two octaves from low C on up are right on pitch.) More air
>helps a bit, but I'm already hyperventilating. Tightening my
>embouchure any further simply seals the reed shut (#3 Ricos on
>the (stock?) Vito mouthpiece.) Any suggestions?
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 13:01:34 -0500
From: "Luby D. Jackson III" <mus_ldj @ hal.lamar.edu>
Subject: Re: [CB] Newbie QuestionsI meant the soprano Eiffer!!!!
Tom Izzo wrote:
> OK, Now you got me!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: L.D. Jackson <mus_ldj@hal.lamar.edu>
> >
> > Do they or is there a site for the Eb clarinet?
>
> Do "they"?
> Who is they?
>
> Tom
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 13:15:20 -0500
From: "Luby D. Jackson III" <mus_ldj @ hal.lamar.edu>
Subject: Re: [CB] [Contra digest]I've played the really huge black ones too.
JJ McLallen wrote:
> > 1. The first note after crossing the break--either
> > direction--
> > is virtually guarenteed to be an ugly squawk.
>
> The one time that I repadded a contra (Leblanc
> paperclip) I found that any teeny weeny, eensy weensy
> leak anywhere towards the top half of the instrument
> will cause that squeak on the middle B. Other than
> that, the reed an/or mouthpiece may cause some
> problems there too. I'd follow Grant's advice.
>
> JJ - the young repair tech
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 13:16:12 -0500
From: "Luby D. Jackson III" <mus_ldj @ hal.lamar.edu>
Subject: Re: [CB] Newbie QuestionsThis is really a control issue.
Alex von Weurth-Hart wrote:
> I have played the CB Clarinet for a couple years now, and it seems that you
> just need to strengthen your diaphram muscles. If you don't get enough air
> with enough pressure through the horn, it will sound a horrendous squawk.---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 14:34:50 -0600 (MDT)
From: Spike Spiegel <jnohe @ nmsu.edu>
Subject: Re: [CB] Newbie SmitingLuby "I'm too sexy for good Netiquette" Jackson writes:
> I meant the soprano Eiffer!!!!That's not a contrabass instrument - either you don't know where you're
at, or you're continuing to ...> I've played the really huge black ones too.
... display your continuing disregard for internet ettiquette that got you
banned from the Bass Clarinet List. Right now, I'm opting the latter.> This is really a control issue.
You've got some nerve. I have a hard time accepting a diagnosis from
someone who's contributions ONLY come one line at a time, which, as Kim
Davenport and myself told you on numerous occasions is RUDE and BANDWIDTH
INEFFICIENT, and at they're best, consist of remarks like "I've played the
really huge black ones too."J. Shouryu Nohe
http://web.nmsu.edu/~jnohe
Professor of SCSM102, New Mexico State Univ.
"I don't know, and I don't have an opinion." - Jet Black
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