Contrabass Digest

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2000-04-20

 
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:23:16 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: [CB] Conn Subcontrabass Sax?
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

I was looking through Langwill's (The New Langwill Index) today for the inventor of the contrabass clarinet (apparently A. Sax, again), and noticed a curious entry under C.G. Conn.  Two actually.

First, there is the passage that says: "1904 built sub-contrabass saxophone in Bb..."

Second, under "Invention" is the notation: "1907: 'immensaphone';..."

Naturally, both of these are of "immense" interest ;-)  The description "sub-contrabass saxophone in Bb" suggests to me something other than the enormous advertisement they hauled from city to city (perhaps that is the immensaphone?).

Can any of the resident saxophone (or Conn) scholars shed light on these?

Thanks,

Grant

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green               gdgreen@contrabass.com
ecode:contrabass       http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
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From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:01:46 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Conn Subcontrabass Sax?
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

In a message dated 04/19/2000 7:40:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gdgreen@contrabass.com writes:

>  I was looking through Langwill's (The New Langwill Index) today for
>  the inventor of the contrabass clarinet (apparently A. Sax, again),
>  and noticed a curious entry under C.G. Conn.  Two actually.
>
>  First, there is the passage that says: "1904 built sub-contrabass
>  saxophone in Bb..."
>
>  Second, under "Invention" is the notation: "1907: 'immensaphone';..."
>
>  Naturally, both of these are of "immense" interest ;-)  The
>  description "sub-contrabass saxophone in Bb" suggests to me something
>  other than the enormous advertisement they hauled from city to city
>  (perhaps that is the immensaphone?).
>
>  Can any of the resident saxophone (or Conn) scholars shed light on these?

This sounds like a question for Dr. Margaret Downie Banks at the Shrine to Music Museum! <mbanks@usd.edu>

Copy has been forwarded!
Cheers!
Heliconman

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Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:08:16 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: [CB] Conn Subcontrabass Sax?
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

>This sounds like a question for Dr. Margaret Downie Banks at the Shrine to
>Music Museum! <mbanks@usd.edu>
>
>Copy has been forwarded!
>Cheers!
>Heliconman

That's what I thought too, and sent her a version of the same post at
the same time.  I just hope we don't inundate her...

Grant

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green               gdgreen@contrabass.com
ecode:contrabass       http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:36:24 -0500
From: Topper <leo_g@carroll.com>
Subject: Re: [CB] Conn Subcontrabass Sax?
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

At 04:08 PM -0700 4/19/00, Grant Green wrote:
>>This sounds like a question for Dr. Margaret Downie Banks at the Shrine to
>>Music Museum! <mbanks@usd.edu>
>>
>>Copy has been forwarded!
>>Cheers!
>>Heliconman
>
>That's what I thought too, and sent her a version of the same post at
>the same time.  I just hope we don't inundate her...
>
>Grant

I hope sombody has a photo.

Cheers, Leo

 http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/leo_g@carroll.com/
"You Take The High Notes" http://helius.carroll.com/p/leo_g/  There is a
difference between "dealers" and musicians that love not only the sound of
music but the tools which make it possible for people to play music. It's
important to set things free so they may ultimately find their way  to
their intended parties. I am especially interested in Musical Instrument
History and technical data. Please email me with interesting links. Thank
you:-) Leo
 

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From: LeliaLoban@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:07:02 EDT
Subject: [CB] One other thing....
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

Discussion of eGroups on the klarinet e-list brought up another matter that I
didn't address in my previous rants.  I've unsubscribed to all eGroups lists,
including this one, so I haven't seen any messages except for the ones posted
to the old contrabass.com address.  If you've already talked about copyright
issues on eGroups, sorry about the repeat.  Also, most of what follows is
cross-posted to klarinet@sneezy.org, so I apologize for the x-post if you
read both lists.

Caveat:  I'm not an attorney and can't give legal advice.  However, in
addition to the concerns I mentioned in my previous messages, I have a
problem with eGroups' TOS (the one that applies to all the lists), because
one section about copyright appears to me to void parts of the other.  See
sections 11 and 12 of the TOS at

http://www.egroups.com

I have no problem with Section 11, "Content Posted on the Service." It says,
in essence, that by posting content to a group, a member gives eGroups the
right to distribute the material to that group, royalty free, while other
members of the group have the right to download the content for their
personal use.  Members agree to "take whatever action necessary to protect
your own intellectual property rights . . . including without limitation the
posting of appropriate copyright notices" and to post only material they have
the right to publish, without infringing anyone else's copyright.  That all
seems normal and reasonable to me.

However, Section 12, "Egroup's Proprietary Rights," is extremely broadly
worded.  It states that all "Content, including but not limited to text"
that's "presented through the Service by eGroups or eGroups' advertisers is
protected by their copyrights...."  This section concludes, "You agree not to
modify, copy, reproduce, republish, upload, post, transmit, sell or
distribute in any way Content available through the Service...."  This
section makes *no distinction* between content written by eGroups and content
written by contributors to the groups.  I read these words to mean that, by
posting material to an eGroups list, group members relinquish the copyright
to their own words and turn the copyright over to eGroups.

As I said, I'm no attorney, but if I read that section accurately, the one
specific action I *must* take to protect my own property rights, as per
Section 11, is *not to post anything in an eGroups list* -- otherwise, I
evoke the Fire Gods of Section 12!  For instance, if I posted anything on the
contrabass list, I would have no right to cross-post it to the clarinet list
on klarinet@sneezy.org.  Fortunately, the Copyright Act specifically gives
permission to quote for the purpose of writing a critical review -- so this
is my critical review of the weasel words on the eGroups TOS:  Thumbs Down
and a razzberry.

Lelia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wherever there are visible vapors having their inception in ignited
carboniferous materials, there is conflagration.
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:50:08 -0500
From: Topper <leo_g@carroll.com>
Subject: Re: [CB] One other thing....
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

try the administration at St.Johns in Queens NY if you are a 501 nonprofit
and you want totally spam free service. on Listserv 1.8d by Searn. Easy
unix based flexible software and great archives and search oprions.

I think it would be  listserv@maelstrom.stjohns.edu but I'm nor sure of the
prefix to getthe owner of lists try www.maelstrom.stjohns.edu
 

---------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mats Öljare" <oljare@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 02:07:58 GMT
Subject: Re: [CB] Contrabass Clarinet
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

>I was responding to a post on Doublereed-L which said that a contrabassoon
>can do everything a Contrabass  Clarinet could do but better. They are just
>different and the interesing thing is the single and double reed... each
>create a much different sound waveform.

Speaking of which,i´d like to hear from contrabassoonists about the range of
the instrument.Most books say it´s not very useful above A or C two octaves
up from the bottom Bb,so how is it really with the high notes?

»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
Mats Öljare
Eskilstuna,Sweden
http://www.angelfire.com/mo/oljare
______________________________________________________
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---------------------------------------------------------

From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:33:56 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Conn Subcontrabass Sax?
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

In a message dated 04/19/2000 8:08:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  gdgreen@contrabass.com writes:

> >This sounds like a question for Dr. Margaret Downie Banks at the Shrine to
>  >Music Museum! <mbanks@usd.edu>
>  >
>  >Copy has been forwarded!
>  >Cheers!
>  >Heliconman
>
>  That's what I thought too, and sent her a version of the same post at
>  the same time.  I just hope we don't inundate her...

Duplicate evidence of respect! I hope she has a little grin over it! Life
could be worse!
---------------------------------------------------------

From: Opusnandy@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:08:03 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Contrabass Clarinet
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

My experience with contrabassoon range has been that it's perfectly useful up to the written C above middle C.  Most professional players can get to F or even G above that, but it starts to get a little thin tone-wise.  The dance set for unacompanied contrabassoon (I forget the actual title at this time) by Daniel Dorff goes up to the D quite efectively.

Jon Carreira
***End of Contrabass Digest***
------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Message: 1
   Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:38:24 +0100
   From: Francis Firth <Francis.Firth@uce.ac.uk>
Subject: Ophicleide

Grant,
I'm forwarding this to the list for amusement.
Francis
Francis.Firth@uce.ac.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: doublereed-l@bcc.wuacc.edu [mailto:doublereed-l@bcc.wuacc.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 9:28 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: DOUBLEREED-L digest 3281

Date: Wed, 19 Apr 00 07:22:34 -0100
From: Jennifer Paull <jennifer.paull@amoris.com>
To: "Doublereed-L Listserv" <doublereed-l@bcc.wuacc.edu>,
Subject: The Ophicleide
Message-ID: <773637B1800.AAA6A49@mail.vtx.ch>

Dear Tutti,

All fans of the ophiclide, please forgive. I received this little poem
this morning and as we have recently spoken about it, felt free to share
it with you. :-))))))

Jennifer
-------------------------------------------------------------
 

   THE OPHICLEIDE

The Ophicleide, like mortal sin,
      Was fostered by the serpent.
Its pitch was vague; its tone was din;
     Its timbre, rude and burpant.

Composers, in a secret vote,
      Declared its sound non grata;
And that's why Wagner never wrote
      An Ophicleide Sonata.

Thus spurned, it soon became defunct,
      To gross neglect succumbing;
A few were pawned, but most were junked
      Or used for indoor plumbing.

And so this ill wind, badly blown,
      Has now completely vanished:
I nominate the saxophone
      To be the next one banished.

Farewell, offensive Ophicleide,
      Your epitaph is chiseled:
"I died of ophicleidicide:
      I tried, alas, but fizzled!"

------------------------------
 

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Message: 2
   Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:42:57 -0500 (EST)
   From: Carole Nowicke <cnowicke@indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Ophicleide poem

Wow, that sure made all the lists (unattributed) quickly. The author
originally posted it on the horn list (in 1996) it was reposted this week,
and I've had people send it to me from the trombone list and other sordid
places.

It is from the keyboard of Prof. Cabbage (Brian Holmes) of San Jose' State
University.
 

Carole Nowicke
cnowicke@indiana.edu  <http://php.ucs.indiana.edu/~cnowicke>

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Message: 3
   Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:24:12 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Michael Grogg <mgrogg@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Ophicleide poem

and I've had people send it to me from the trombone list and other sordid places.

Thats because you are the most sordid and notorious player of such instruments we know.

8-)

Michael

Do I load Easter Egg shells in my shotgun to hunt the Easter Bunny?

________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 4
   Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 11:43:26 -0500 (EST)
   From: Carole Nowicke <cnowicke@indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Ophicleide poem

On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, Michael Grogg wrote:

> Thats because you are the most sordid and notorious player of such
> instruments we know.

'Scuse me? I'm a librarian and therefore quiet and respectable.

Professor Cabbage also reminded me of his epic poem "Tales of the Cultural
Revolution," which concerns the suppression of Tuba playing in China
during the Cultural Revolution.  This was in a mid-1980s TUBA Journal.  I
can't provide a better date w/o digging through all the journals as they
weren't indexed until recently.
 

Carole Nowicke
cnowicke@indiana.edu  <http://php.ucs.indiana.edu/~cnowicke>

_______________________________________________________________________
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Message: 5
   Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:53:10 CDT
   From: "Spencer Parks" <ilylamp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ophicleide

Very funny poem.
                                           /
I'm not sure how I feel about this though /()   \
                                               O  |
                                          \()   /
                                           \
>I nominate the saxophone
>       To be the next one banished.

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Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
   Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:13:06 -0700
   From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Ophicleide

>Very funny poem.
>                                           /
>I'm not sure how I feel about this though /()   \
>                                               O  |
>                                          \()   /
>                                           \
> >I nominate the saxophone
> >       To be the next one banished.

Just keep in mind that the poet is a horn player - they have a
natural antipathy toward saxophones (many feel that the saxes get all
their best parts).  ;-)

Grant

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green               gdgreen@contrabass.com
ecode:contrabass       http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 

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[Duplicate deleted]
________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 8
   Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:51:05 -0500
   From: Peter Koval <pkoval@usd.edu>
Subject: Re: Conn Subcontrabass Sax?

Grant Green wrote:
> I was looking through Langwill's (The New Langwill Index) today for
> the inventor of the contrabass clarinet (apparently A. Sax, again),
> and noticed a curious entry under C.G. Conn.  Two actually.
>
> First, there is the passage that says: "1904 built sub-contrabass
> saxophone in Bb..."
>
> Second, under "Invention" is the notation: "1907: 'immensaphone';..."
>
> Naturally, both of these are of "immense" interest ;-)  The
> description "sub-contrabass saxophone in Bb" suggests to me something
> other than the enormous advertisement they hauled from city to city
> (perhaps that is the immensaphone?).
>
> Can any of the resident saxophone (or Conn) scholars shed light on these?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Grant
>
> I can dispel the myth of the (Sub) Contrabass Saxophone in Bb.  In many
> Conn catalogues the bass saxophone in Bb is termed a "contrabass"
> saxophone--to the casual reader, this appears to be a Bb contrabass sax,
> i.e. a sub-contrabass pitched below the Eb contrabass.  There is no doubt
> that the bass saxophone is the instrument referred to, since there is
> usually an illustration, and the overall listings cover sopranino through
> baritone and (contra) bass.  The same nomenclature is used in a number of
> American treatises in the early twentieth century, i.e. the bass saxophone
> termed a Bb Contrabass.

I have not seen any reference to the immensaphone--possibly it is a large
bore tuba??  I'll call at the Shrine to Music museum and check in the next
few days.

Regards,
Peter Koval
pkoval@usd.edu

>
 
 

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Message: 9
   Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 01:01:32 -0500
   From: "Tom Izzo" <jeanvaljean@ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Conn Subcontrabass Sax?

>
> Grant Green wrote:
>
> > I was looking through Langwill's (The New Langwill Index) today for
> > the inventor of the contrabass clarinet (apparently A. Sax, again),
> > and noticed a curious entry under C.G. Conn.  Two actually.
> >
> > First, there is the passage that says: "1904 built sub-contrabass
> > saxophone in Bb..."
> >
> > Second, under "Invention" is the notation: "1907: 'immensaphone';..."
> >
I believe the "immensaphone" by Conn was that 3 story in C monster, that
wasn't really an  instrument per sé, but rather a movie prop. It has been
pictured in the Saxophone Journal (sorry I don't have the issue number
handy), but ask Paul Cohen, he would know.

Tom

________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 10
   Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 01:31:34 -0500
   From: "Tom Izzo" <jeanvaljean@ntsource.com>
Subject: MINIATURE SAXOPHONE, GOLD & PLATINUM--now THIS is small!

MINIATURE SAXOPHONE, GOLD & PLATINUM
 

(If first downloading has not yielded pictorial page)

MINIATURE, PLAYABLE TENOR SAXOPHONE REPLICA
Believed to be the world's smallest, made of 18 Karat Gold and Platinum

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 The miniature saxophone is an exact, precisely scaled down miniaturized tenor saxophone replica .The miniature instrument is only 10 centimeters (4") long, yet it includes all the parts of a saxophone: keys, all moving parts of the key control mechanisms, springs, caps and even a proportionately scaled down reed!

Believed to be the smallest playable saxophone in the world its accomplishment took the maker, miniature artist Erick Paquette, over 1,500 hours of detailed work.

Furthermore, all of the 302 pieces of which the saxophone is constructed were, each, individually and uniquely hand crafted.

The body of the saxophone is made of 18K gold, the keys are made of platinum and the springs of 18K white gold.

The miniature Saxophone has been appraised by Birks, Canada's leading chain of fine and prestigious jewelry and wares, at over US $60,000.00 and is now available for purchase by a serious collector or by museums.
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 About the artist:
Erick Paquette is a miniaturist and goldsmith based in Montreal with a passion and a dream to conclude a full collection, or, his own orchestra, of miniature, functional musical instruments made of precious metals. Mr. Paquette produces all the necessary parts uniquely by hand using ordinary goldsmith tools and instruments, without resorting to any special machinery, scaling or magnifying instrumentation.

In addition to offering now this miniature saxophone for sale, Mr. Paquette is available and willing to be commissioned for other miniaturization projects in precious metals and stones.
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Inquiries, comments, questions and requests from collectors, musicians and other miniaturists are welcome

Birks'appraisal of the miniature saxophone is available to serious interested parties by Fax or by Snail-Mail upon request.
 

VISIT THE HOME PAGE OF VAN-DAAZ-The Diamond People

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

© 1995,1996, 1997, 1998 Impubco 4 Eric; Page master: Zak
Since April 30th. 1996  have visited this site
 

[This message contained attachments]
 
 

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Message: 11
   Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 02:23:31 EDT
   From: SEMarcus@aol.com
Subject: Poem About "Tuba Playing in China" (was Ophicleide poem)

In a message dated 4/19/00 11:44:41 AM, cnowicke@indiana.edu writes:

<< Professor Cabbage also reminded me of his epic poem "Tales of the Cultural
Revolution," which concerns the suppression of Tuba playing in China
during the Cultural Revolution. >>
 

"Tales of the Cultural Revolution," composed by Brian Holmes for brass
quintet (obviously featuring the tuba player) and narrator, uses the text of
the poem mentioned by Carole.  The piece was recorded on Crystal Records LP
S-552 by the Cambridge Symphonic Brass Ensemble.

Kindest regards,

Steve Marcus
BBb Bass, Prairie Brass Band
Director of Sales, THE BEAUTIFUL SOUND, INC.  (630) 325-9999  (Steinway Piano Dealer)
________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 12
   Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 03:51:29 EDT
   From: Heliconman@aol.com
Subject: Re: MINIATURE SAXOPHONE, GOLD & PLATINUM--no

In a message dated 04/20/2000 1:39:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jeanvaljean@ntsource.com writes:

>
>  File:  contraba.zip (62355 bytes)
>  DL Time (31200 bps): < 1 minute
>
What's this?
A virus that was automatically uploaded or an actual useful picture?
I make it a point to ask when there is NO DESCRIPTION!!
Thanks!
 

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