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Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 22:46:31 -0500
From: jim and joyce <lande@erols.com>
Subject: plastic is plastic
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comShouryu writes:
>I feel it would be more accurate to say that the
>Greenline is made of wood
>dust impregnated with plastics. GLs are 90% wood, 10%
>resins and epoxies.I don't know about proportions, but Dee Hayes (A chem E, I think) has
written several times on Klarinet to point out that all plastics consist
of resins, epozies and filler in various proportions. The filler
contributes little to the mix. (I seem to recall that partical board is
just wood dust and resin.) In any case, there is also a concensus on
Klarinet that plastic clarinets can be made the equal to or possibly
superior to wood clarinets.
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 03:43:49 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barrister@slavedriver.co.uk
Subject: Buffet Greenline
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
Now,let's not give the Greenline a bad rap. It's a great clarinet, by a great company, and costs just as much as a Vintage R-13 made completely out of wood.
Also, what "Wood Dust?" It's constructed of pressure-formed billets made of 90% Grenadilla and 10% formulated epoxy Resin.
And it's not really a plastic clarinet. It's really made more of wood than plastic (resin) and it sounds in effect like a wodden one. It's really good.Michael Barrister
- Waiting for the Greenline Contrabbass clarinet!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------
yourname@0-0-7.co.uk or yourname@shaken-not-stirred.co.uk
The domain's Bond, James Bond - only from www.funmail.co.uk---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 10:36:46 -0800
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Large electric basses
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comAt 01:33 AM 12/4/99 CST, you wrote:
> In response to large electric basses, the bass player in our group (that I
>play tenor sax and flute in) says that he has heard something called a
>"Stick" which is an electric bass that plays an octave below the standard
>bass; he says that the instrument is suprisingly short and doesn't even have
>a neck. Does anyone know what he's referring to??? I don't know why I
>just thought of it. I'd like to hear 32' notes coming from a rock group
>even though I don't care for rock!
> -GreggYes, he's referring to the Chapman Stick, but he doesn't have the details
quite right. I play one. The Stick comes in several models: 10 string, 12
string ("Grand"), and 8 string bass. Also, the 10 and 12 string models can
be configured in a variety of ways. The stock tuning for the 10 string
model is 5 "melody" strings tuned D-A-E-B-F# (highest to lowest, strings
arranged as on guitar) and 5 "bass" strings tuned C-G-D-A-E (lowest to
highest, tuned with the lowest string in the middle of the neck: this is
called "inverted 5ths" tuning). The high D on the melody side is one step
below the high E string on guitar, and the low C on the bass side is two
steps below the low E on bass guitar (not an octave). The 12 string
instrument adds another melody string (a low C#) and another bass string (a
high B), which increases the overlap between left and right sides of the
instrument. You can also have it set up to divide the strings 6/4 or 4/6
(or on the 12 string, 7/5 or 5/7) instead of 5/5 or 6/6. The Stick has a
*very* low action, and is played by just tapping the strings against the
neck, rather than picking or strumming. Since you can play a not with one
finger, your right hand is free to fret notes as well. One generally plays
all of the bass side with the left hand, and the melody side with the right
hand. Tapping doesn't provide much acoustic energy, so an acoustic body is
essentially irrelevant: pickups are essential. If you see one of these
instruments in concert, it looks much like a fat guitar neck, with no body,
typically at a near vertical angle: it is supported at the pickup end by a
belt hook, with a shoulder strap connected near the side of the nut,
leaving both hands free to tap. All of the Sticks have a 34" scale, like
most electric basses. Long for a guitar, but somewhat shorter than most
basses because it lacks a body.The 8 string bass version is essentially a narrow 10 string instrument, set
up with all bass strings. I believe the standard setup is B-E-A-D-G-C-F-B,
like a 6 string bass with two extra high strings, but you can have it set
up any way you want: they're essentially made to order. Its generally worn
more horizontally, and can be tapped or plucked (or even slapped, if you
want). A new version, the NS Stick, is a collaboration between Emmett
Chapman (Stick) and Ned Steinberger (as in Steinberger basses and guitars).
If it isn't already on the market, it should be soon.Stick Enterprises has a website at http://www.stick.com. Considering that
these are professional-quality instruments, the prices are relatively low.
There aren't any "student models" (you won't find a new Stick for $279),
but you can find them 2ne hand from time to time.Enjoy!
Grant
BTW, the lowest notes I remember hearing from a rock band are in "Back in
N.Y.C." on Genesis's "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway".GDG
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 10:44:23 -0800
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Oboe vs. Bassoon
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comAt 04:48 PM 12/4/99 EST, you wrote:
>Grant Green wrote,
>>If you're a sax player, and someone hands you an oboe, it doesn't take long
>to figure out. Once you realize that your F fingering plays F#, and that Bb
>and C are odd, and that the RH4 keys are backwards, and that your octave key
>is no longer automatic, you're most of the way there. >
>
>Oh, is *that* all?
>=:-OWell, I didn't say it would *sound* good, but yes, those are the primary
differences. In contrast, on the reed contrabass you have to get used to
pressing only one key for any given note: you don't hold down 6 keys to
play D (or *any* note) for example. On bassoon, you have common notes
(like Bb and F#) played using right thumb keys. Takes more getting used to
than oboe does.>> If you're a sax player, and someone hands you a bassoon, where do you
>start?>
>
>By handing it back?
>;-)Oh, where's your spirit of adventure? ;-)
Grant
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 14:21:20 -0500
From: John Howell <John.Howell@vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Contra digest]
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>But, lets face it. We're just being sentimental about the "old tried and
>true" cane reeds and wooden instruments. The real reason we don't use a
>fibre-cane reed is that it sounds bad. If I could find one that played like
>real cane and sounded as well, I'd use it.
>FredWhat's needed is a reed that sounds just like an excellent cane reed, and
there may be one. A couple of weeks ago our clarinet professor walked into
a faculty meeting and ripped off some passages that sounded as good as
always. Then he showed us the composite reed! He said he's going to
experiment with it, but not tell his students about it because they still
need to know all the tricks of using cane reeds.John
John & Susie Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:John.Howell@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 12:50:20 -0700 (MST)
From: Shouryu Nohe <jnohe@nmsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Buffet Greenline
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comOn Sun, 5 Dec 1999 Barrister@slavedriver.co.uk wrote:
> Now,let's not give the Greenline a bad rap.
Who's giving it a bad rap? I'm quite happy with mine.
> It's a great clarinet, by a great company, and costs just as much as a
> Vintage R-13 made completely out of wood.I purchased mine when they were the same price as standard R13s. Muncy
Winds currently sells them for for about $500 less than a Vintage.> Also, what "Wood Dust?" It's constructed of pressure-formed billets
> made of 90% Grenadilla and 10% formulated epoxy Resin.Right, as in Grenadilla dust. As in, "Hey, we just carved ourselves
another clarinet, and look at all the dust created in the process. There
must be something we can do with this saw dust of sorts." I have spoken
with Francios Kloc personally on this matter (he is a craftsman at Buffet)
and the billets you speak of are made of the sawdust (wood dust,
grenadilla dust, whatever) of standard clarinets. In a very realistic
sense, you might even say that the Greenline is particle board.> And it's not really a plastic clarinet. It's really made more of wood
> than plastic (resin) and it sounds in effect like a wodden one. It's
> really good.As for plastic is plastic, by Jim and/or Joyce (they never sign as to
which one):> I don't know about proportions, but Dee Hayes (A chem E, I think) has
> written several times on Klarinet to point out that all plastics consist
> of resins, epozies and filler in various proportions. The filler
> contributes little to the mix. (I seem to recall that partical board is
> just wood dust and resin.) In any case, there is also a concensus on
> Klarinet that plastic clarinets can be made the equal to or possibly
> superior to wood clarinets.I am aware of all this - it was GTGallant@aol.com that kindly brought the
Webster's dictionary into the discussion and firmly assured us that the
Greenline is plastic. By technical definition, I must agree, but by
everyday living, most people would concede otherwise. For instance...The entertainment center my parents own - it's made a particle board,
which by technical definition is plastic. I've yet to hear one soul in
four years say, "My that's a sturdy plastic casing for your TV."
I stayed in three different apartments this summer, and four different
friends helped me move. They also all helped me move a desk made
primarily of plywood, by definition a plastic. All said nearly exactly
the same words when helping me move: "Gee, this is pretty light for a
wooden desk." (Gee was often replaced with other words.)Plastic, for the most part, seems to have become not so much a generic
term for ALL syntetically made items, but more specific to items that
are...well, plastic. We don't call our tires plastic! Yet by definition,
they are, since they are impregnated with metal mesh. If we were to refer
to our tires as such to most people, we would either be laughed at or
given a funny look.This is why I am less likely to state that Greenline is a plastic
clarinet, even though it is. (I've been on Klarinet for over a year, and
plausible deniability is a beautiful thing to have with those people.)
This is simply because in everyday living, plastic has come to be more
specific than generic, and when the term is being applied to the
Greenline, it is generic. However, when you say "Plastic Clarinet,"
people think specifically of the plastic in your inferior clarinets.As for general concensus on plastic being just as good as wood, I've read
it, I know it, but there's really no way to be certain until someone makes
a plastic (in the specific sense) stick with the craftsmanship of a
greenline.
J. Shouryu Nohe
http://web.nmsu.edu/~jnohe
Professor of SCSM102, New Mexico State Univ.
"If I wanted a 'job,' I'd have gone music ED, thank you very much!"---------------------------------------------------------
From: Fmmck@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:58:47 EST
Subject: Re: Buffet Greenline
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIn a message dated 12/4/99 10:45:52 PM, Barrister@slavedriver.co.uk writes:
<< Now,let's not give the Greenline a bad rap. It's a great clarinet, by a
great company, and costs just as much as a Vintage R-13 made completely out
of wood. >>Michael et al-
I apologize for insulting your Greenlines! My point was merely that
clarinets made out of alternative materials can also be good horns. The
Greenline is the prime example.Unfortunately, the major manufacturers don't have the courage to come right
out and produce Pro instruments using their student model's plastic. They
don't think we would buy enough to justify the cost of production, and they
are probably right.Fred
<A HREF="http://www.dreamnetstudios.com/music/mmb/index.htm">MMB</A>
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Chip Owen" <cowen@whitleynet.org>
Subject: Re: Help IDing a Bassoon
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 17:37:31 -0500
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comNo. 981 was made in 1963 and is Fox model II. At that time there were only
two Fox models made of wood: the models I and II. They were actually the
same instrument except that the model I also had ten additional thumb
rollers and a high E key.If you want any more details let me know. I can get the exact shipping date
and possibly some additional information. The only challenge is remembering
to look it up when I go to work the next day.Chip Owen
Columbia City, IN
cowen@whitleynet.org
> From: RBobo123@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 01:43:25 EST
> Subject: Help IDing a Bassoon
> Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
> I just recieved a new instrument from my school, and i'm at a loss as to
> which model it is. I know it's a Fox. It has a Very Red-ish maple body. It
> also has a high D key, but no high E key. No plateau key for the left hand
> 3rd finger. And it has rollers on the Ab, F, and F# keys for the right hand
> pinky, and Eb and Db for the left hand pinky. It's serial number is 981. Is
> there a bassoonist out there who could identify this? Thanks in advance.
> ---------------------------------------------------------
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