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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 15:49:03 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Oboe vs. Bassoon
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>I've met a lot of bassoonists, professional and
>student, and none of them I've met could play oboe, or
>switched from oboe. On the other hand, all the
>bassoonists I've ever met could play clarinet and
>bass, and most could play the sax too. Especially
>since the bassoon is more or less regarded as a member
>of the "oboe family," you would think that more people
>could play both. How come? I'd really like to know,
>especially because they're not that different.
>
>-AdamPerhaps you just haven't met enough bassoonists yet... While I
haven't played bassoon for several years, I used to be good enough at
it. I've also played oboe, well enough for a small jazz ensemble
(maybe not 1st chair for the symphony...) ;-) Robert Howe plays oboe
and clarinet - bassoon too, Robert?I started with clarinet, and switched to bass clarinet before
starting bassoon. I think students are rarely *started* on bassoon,
but usually play another instrument first. In contrast, I think oboe
players are typically started on oboe (any of our oboe players care
to comment?): since they're never encouraged to switch, I think
they're less likely to. Plus, when you play oboe, and have all those
gorgeous melodies, there's less incentive to go looking for other
timbres.I think of oboe and bassoon as separate families. In most cases,
members of a woodwind family are united in a common fingering system:
oboe and bassoon are fairly different that way. In fact, oboe is
more closely similar to the saxophone than to the bassoon. The
bassoon, with its bass extension and multiple thumb keys, is probably
more different from the other woodwinds than any other woodwind is
different from any non-bassoon woodwind (except for the reed
contrabass, in a class by itself). There's really *very* little that
carries over from bassoon to oboe in terms of technique: I suspect
that my experience on clarinet and/or flute helps me more on oboe
than my bassoon experience. If you're a sax player, and someone
hands you an oboe, it doesn't take long to figure out. Once you
realize that your F fingering plays F#, and that Bb and C are odd,
and that the RH4 keys are backwards, and that your octave key is no
longer automatic, you're most of the way there. If you're a sax
player, and someone hands you a bassoon, where do you start?Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Mats Öljare" <oljare@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rap
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 00:11:56 GMT
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>The modern 6 string bass is typically tuned B0-E1-A1-D2-G2-C3: the 5
>string is tuned the same, usually (but not always) omitting the top
>C3 string. The 7 string bass adds a high F3 string. Of course, bassI´ve never seen such a thing as a 7-string bass and i would like to see it
in reality.>players are free to alter the tuning at will, and can tune the low B
>down to A if desired. Much below that, and one starts to lose timbre
>from the slack string. The Chapman stick is typically tuned with theI know that it´s hardly possible to get any good sound at all just by tuning
the E string on a regular bass down to D.I do this frequently cause the
4-string is all i have and how far do you go with just low E anyway?Mats Öljare
Eskilstuna,Sweden
http://www.angelfire.com/mo/oljare______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:47:51 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: 7 String basses
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>>The modern 6 string bass is typically tuned B0-E1-A1-D2-G2-C3: the 5
>>string is tuned the same, usually (but not always) omitting the top
>>C3 string. The 7 string bass adds a high F3 string. Of course, bass
>
>I've never seen such a thing as a 7-string bass and i would like to=20
>see it in reality.I see them advertised in Bass Player magazine (http://www.bassplayer.com/home.shtml). Even *8* string basses...
Stick Enterprises also makes an 8 string bass, as does (last I heard) Warr guitars.For 7 and 8 string basses, see http://www.bassalone.com/ and check "Products" - there are several listed (although one of the 8 stringers listed is really a 4x2 - with pairs of strings tuned in octaves like a 12 string guitar). There are also 12 string basses, which are almost always 4x3 (one low string with two tuned an octave higher, in triplets). 12 string basses tend to be used mainly in bands that don't have a guitarist: the upper ranks of strings on the 12 string bass fill in the frequency gap that the guitar would otherwise occupy.
>>players are free to alter the tuning at will, and can tune the low B
>>down to A if desired. Much below that, and one starts to lose timbre
>>from the slack string. The Chapman stick is typically tuned with the
>
>I know that it=B4s hardly possible to get any good sound at all just=20
>by tuning the E string on a regular bass down to D.I do this=20
>frequently cause the 4-string is all i have and how far do you go=20
>with just low E anyway?Perhaps use higher-tension strings? There are Hipshot tuners, which are designed to drop the tuning of a string by a half or whole step quickly. I would think that low D is easy, low C# or C more questionable and better played on a low B string.
Enjoy!
Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:25:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Adam Kent-Isaac <lokibassoon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Bassoon vs. Clarinet
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI've actually found that the bassoon is quite similar
to the clarinet, in many ways. First of all, a lot of
fingerings are similar or the same. First finger and
thumb (equivalent to the whisper key, except it
produces a note) gives you E, thumb and first two a D,
thumb and first three a C, first three and first on
right hand a B, and so on, quite similar until you
get lower than G and higher than F. A lot of
bassoonists I know actually switched from clarinet to
bass clarinet, then to bassoon. I can see why! Bass
affords less lip tension and has a looser embochure,
sorta like tenor sax.
About the sax being like the oboe; I heard that Sax
applied the oboe keywork to the conical metal tube
with a single reeed to produce the sax as we know it.
This makes sense, now.-Adam
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---------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:51:27 -0500
From: John Howell <John.Howell@vt.edu>
Subject: Oboe vs. Bassoon
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>From: Adam Kent-Isaac <lokibassoon@yahoo.com>
>I've met a lot of bassoonists, professional and
>student, and none of them I've met could play oboe, or
>switched from oboe. On the other hand, all the
>bassoonists I've ever met could play clarinet and
>bass, and most could play the sax too. Especially
>since the bassoon is more or less regarded as a member
>of the "oboe family," you would think that more people
>could play both. How come? I'd really like to know,
>especially because they're not that different.
>-AdamHi, Adam. They actually are as different as any other two different
woodwinds. Just because they both use double reeds doesn't signify, the
sizes and embouchures are so different.That said, however, I have to tell you that our department head is a fine
bassoonist and is also our backup oboe teacher, although he doesn't play it
in public. His real second instrument is sax, any size. And our flute
teacher is equally good on flute and sax. It all depends on what you study
seriously. Some schools (Indiana is one) offer a degree in "woodwinds,"
during which you learn to be a professional doubler.john
John & Susie Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:John.Howell@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 03:55:23 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barrister@slavedriver.co.uk
Subject: Heckelphone part
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
If an Heckelphonist is unavailable, what are the advantages or disadvantages of having First or Asst. Principlal sub the part on the bassoon? Could the bassoon ever pass for a heckelphone?Is there a type of reed that would make the sound more reedy and nasal, in Heckelphone style? Also, what is the advantage of the tonal quality produced by an early English-style bocal (Waterhouse anyone?)
Thank you all very much for input.-Michael Barrister
-------------------------------------------------------------------
yourname@0-0-7.co.uk or yourname@shaken-not-stirred.co.uk
The domain's Bond, James Bond - only from www.funmail.co.uk---------------------------------------------------------
From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 02:32:35 EST
Subject: Re: 7 String basses
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIn a message dated 12/02/1999 7:48:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
gdgreen@contrabass.com writes:<<
For 7 and 8 string basses, see http://www.bassalone.com/ and check
"Products" - there are several listed (although one of the 8
stringers listed is really a 4x2 - with pairs of strings tuned in
octaves like a 12 string guitar). There are also 12 string basses,
which are almost always 4x3 (one low string with two tuned an octave
higher, in triplets). 12 string basses tend to be used mainly in
bands that don't have a guitarist: the upper ranks of strings on the
12 string bass fill in the frequency gap that the guitar would
otherwise occupy.
>>The bass player for 24-7 Spyz played a 10 string Chapman Stick which is
basically a fretboard with very hot pickups so as to allow the player to use
all 10 fingers in a sort of piano technique. I guess it was like combining
the electric guitar with the bass guitar and forgetting about the body.
---------------------------------------------------------From: John Fierke <jfierke@media100.com>
Subject: subwoofers
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:59:49 -0500
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comDate: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 07:12:00 -0800
From: Lawrence de Martin <demartin@tesser.com
<mailto:demartin@tesser.com> >
Subject: Re: Rap
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
<mailto:contrabass@contrabass.com>Stage sub-woofers generally roll off at E1. The exceptions
I know of are the ServoDrive ContraBass (circa 10Hz, two octaves below
E1) and some truly monstrous cabinets (>60 cubic feet!) from Meyer
Sound and Eastern Acoustic Works. I have also seen custom built-in
subs that go to B0.
Larry de Martin
---------------------------------------------------------
There is a company/brand of speakers called BagEnd that I've seen in my Pro
Audio catalogs which claims to go down to below 8 Hz with a pair of 15 inch
speakers mounted in a cabinet just large enough to hold them. The catch is
that there is a special controller/amplifier box you have to buy with them,
I think it's $ 3 - 4 K by the time you add stuff up. Supposedly, they are
un-ported and operate the speakers below the resonance frequency, so they
can crank the signal input without blowing the speakers. I don't know how
well these things couple to the room acoustically, if you put them up
against the wall you should get the equivalent of an infinite baffle.Among other things, they claim it can be used for "simulating earthquakes"
for theater sound systems. No mention of bassoons, sorry.---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 21:25:52 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barrister@slavedriver.co.uk
Subject: Fibre-Cane Reeds: Pro's and Con's
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comNow here's one; How many people play on fibre-cane reeds or have ever played them? Here's what I think; they're "new-age crap" seeking to topple the age-old methods of making woodwind instruments and reeds and everything that adds to the splendor of the original woodwind sound. And I just think they sound bad. The worst are the double-reeds made from synthetic cane. They sound cheesy.
If Charlie Parker were alive now, would he give up his old sax for an AKAI wind synthesiser? Would Mozart give up his Grand for a Yamaha Clavinova? Would Karr switch to a ZETA upright electric? Technology may be interesting but it should stay out of music. (This does not really apply to electric basses, guitars, vibes or keyboards.)
I'm typing this because I saw recently a BARI fibre reed advertisement. It showed a reed in water. It said "Is this your idea of a perfect reed?" etc etc etc. I couldn't believe it! Reed-making is an art that has been honed and perfected over hundreds of years since the first Egyptian played a simple piece of cane reed. I'd never give up a wooden clarinet for a plastic one, and i'd not give up my reeds for "synthetic" garbage.
-Mike Barrister
-------------------------------------------------------------------
yourname@0-0-7.co.uk or yourname@shaken-not-stirred.co.uk
The domain's Bond, James Bond - only from www.funmail.co.uk---------------------------------------------------------
From: "J. Daniel Ashton" <jdashton@bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:51:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Fibre-Cane Reeds: Pro's and Con's
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com<nofill>>>>>>> "B" == Barrister@slavedriver.co.uk wrote:
B> If Charlie Parker were alive now, would he give up his old sax for
B> an AKAI wind synthesizer? Would Mozart give up his Grand for a
B> Yamaha Clavinova?Well, Mozart might.
--
mailto:jdashton@southern.edu J. Daniel Ashton ICQ# 9445142
mailto:jdashton@us.ibm.com http://www.southern.edu/~jdashton
mailto:jdashton@bellsouth.net <<-- NeXTMail PGP key available
</nofill>
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:25:25 -0800 (PST)
From: JJ McLallen <jam_ump10r@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Bassoon vs. Clarinet
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comActually, my professor, James Scheopflin, Washington
State University, plays the clarinet for the Spokane
Symphony. He also, I am told, is one heck of a
bassoonist, although he plays rarely nowadays. I heard
him play in woodwind tech class, even after years of
not seriously studying the instrument, and he blew us
all away. He also plays bass clarinet very well.JJ McLallen
PS --
--How about playing the Mozart Basson Concerto (K
191)on the Bass Clarinet?--- Adam Kent-Isaac <lokibassoon@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've actually found that the bassoon is quite
> similar
> to the clarinet, in many ways. First of all, a lot
> of
> fingerings are similar or the same. First finger and
> thumb (equivalent to the whisper key, except it
> produces a note) gives you E, thumb and first two a
> D,
> thumb and first three a C, first three and first on
> right hand a B, and so on, quite similar until you
> get lower than G and higher than F. A lot of
> bassoonists I know actually switched from clarinet
> to
> bass clarinet, then to bassoon. I can see why! Bass
> affords less lip tension and has a looser embochure,
> sorta like tenor sax.
> About the sax being like the oboe; I heard that Sax
> applied the oboe keywork to the conical metal tube
> with a single reeed to produce the sax as we know
> it.
> This makes sense, now.
>
> -Adam
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