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From: "Mats Öljare" <oljare@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Request for sound clips.
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 00:17:06 GMT
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>Have any of you good chaps know of, or have, any sound clips of the
>following in action:
>
>Contrabass Trombone
>Contrabass ClarinetI´ll put up samples from David Bobroff´s contrabass trombone CD if he gives me the permission.
Mats Öljare
Eskilstuna,Sweden
http://www.angelfire.com/mo/oljare---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 16:41:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Adam Kent-Isaac <lokibassoon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Oboe with Sax Fingerings
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comSOmeone's selling an "oboe with sax fingerings." Does such a thing exist?
I was wondering, why don't they make a whole line of
instruments (sax, bassoon, oboe, and flute) all with
the clarinet fingerings so that clarinetists can play
any woodwind with no trouble? What would be the
acoustic properties of such an instrument? And has it
ever been done before?
I bet it would bring in a lot of money if they found
out some way to do it without severely altering the
sound.-Adam
---------------------------------------------------------
From: CoolStu67@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 19:45:59 EST
Subject: Re: Oboe with Sax Fingerings
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com<<
I was wondering, why don't they make a whole line of
instruments (sax, bassoon, oboe, and flute) all with
the clarinet fingerings so that clarinetists can play
any woodwind with no trouble?
>>Because most clarinetests aren't lazy, and would welcome the challenge. They'
all use the basic system of fingerings anyways, it is just modified to fit
the instrument. And why would you choose the clarinet fingerings? Why not the
saxophone version? Some believe it is the simpliest fingering chart that
exists, which I agree to.Also, there is already an instrument that can play any instrument with one
fingering set. It's called a MIDI controller paired with a MIDI instrument.Stuart
---------------------------------------------------------From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 20:28:39 EST
Subject: Re: Oboe with Sax Fingerings
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIn a message dated 11/02/1999 7:46:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
CoolStu67@aol.com writes:<< Also, there is already an instrument that can play any instrument with one
fingering set. It's called a MIDI controller paired with a MIDI instrument.
>>
You seem to have overlooked the MIDI guitar controller and various wind
synthesizers including everything from the Casio digital horn to Yamaha WX7's
and Lyricons and Steiner EWIs & EVIs and even ribbon controllers.
"Different strokes for different folks"
as they used to say on Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Spencer Parks" <ilylamp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Request for sound clips.
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 17:37:25 PST
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI believe Anthony Braxton uses a contrabass clarinet. He's a crazy modern
jazz musician. It may not be the style of contrabass clarinet you want to
hear, but it's something.
>From: <Colin.HARRIS@dfee.gov.uk>
>Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
>To: contrabass@contrabass.com
>Subject: Request for sound clips.
>Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:13:31 -0000
>
>Dear list,
>
>Have any of you good chaps know of, or have, any sound clips of the
>following in action:
>
>Contrabass Trombone
>Contrabass Clarinet
>
>Either as a solo, or in an ensemble.
>
>I am don't see the point buying The Ring or Gurrelieider just to hear a
>couple of notes!!!
>
>Colin Harris
>Eb Bass
>Backworth Colliery Band
>http://www.backworth.org.uk <http://www.backworth.org.uk>
>See "A Day in the Life of Backworth Colliery Band" at
>http://www.backworth.org.uk/life.htm <http://www.backworth.org.uk/life.htm>
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 17:56:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Adam Kent-Isaac <lokibassoon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Oboe with saqx fingerings
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comYes, as a player of both I do certainly understand
that the saxophone's fingerings are much simpler than
the clarinet's. This is because there are keys rather
than holes, there are fewer keys, and the keys are
arranged in a pattern which is easy to understand.
(although quite difficult to truly master.) Also, it
overblows up an octave.I simply chose the clarinet
becaise there probably are more clarinet players than
sax players, and plenty of clarinetists wishing they
could play the sax. You see they quite often with they
could have shiny, sleek saxophones rather than their
clarinets. Of course this could apply to any two
instruments but the tenor sax is the envy of so many
bass clarinetists. Usually in the first year of
beginner band, everybody snatches up the saxophones
really fast, and so the guys who didn't get one play
bass clarinet, hoping that someday, some foolish idiot
will mistake it for a saxophone.=====
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 21:05:45 -0500
From: jim and joyce <lande@erols.com>
Subject: training trees
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI have thought about training trees for various purposes. (I have thought about bamboo in particular, since once could get something in a single growing season, thought probably not suitable for a serpent.) One thought, however: wood from the inside of a curve is called compression wood and wood on the outside of a curve is called tension wood. The problem is that compression wood and tension wood tend to have very different expansion characteristics as humidity changes. This is why woodworkers seek out nice straight grained wood.
My suggestion for making a serpent would be plywood. Start with a clay cast of the inside of the serpent, wind long strips of veneer around, and clamp. Worth a try, I guess.
jim
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron Rabushka" <arabushk@cowtown.net>
Subject: Re: Request for sound clips.
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 21:02:19 -0600
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI do recall one stunning track that Anthony Braxton did with a bass sax and
M. Richard Abrams at the piano. Hopefully he did more low-instrumental
explorations.Aaron J. Rabushka
arabushk@cowtown.net
http://www.cowtown.net/users/arabushk/---------------------------------------------------------
From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 23:10:16 EST
Subject: Re: training trees
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIn a message dated 11/02/1999 9:05:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
lande@erols.com writes:<< I have thought about training trees for various purposes. (I have
thought about bamboo in particular, since once could get something in a
single growing season, though probably not suitable for a serpent.)I understand pear wood is pretty desirable for serpents.
One thought, however: wood from the inside of a curve is called compression
wood and wood on the outside of a curve is called tension wood. The
problem is that compression wood and tension wood tend to have very different
expansion characteristics as humidity changes. This is why woodworkers seek
out nice straight grained wood.
>>Perhaps the terms compression and tension are terms referring to wood that
has been grown in the traditional straight manner and then bent after it is
cut down. If a tree spends its life in the same S curve, I would strongly
believe that any compression and tension would be minimal or non-existant. I
don't think I'd want to use straight grained wood that came from a crooked
tree that was straightened out after it was cut down. Would you? Just a
thought.
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 11:25:53 +0000 (GMT)
From: Dafydd y garreg wen <mavnw@csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: cornetts
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comOn Tue, 2 Nov 1999, John Howell wrote:
> Actually no; you've got the thumb hole to deal with, and your F in both
> octaves is probably supposed to be a forked fingering: T 123 4-6. It's
> closer to recorder fingering than to tin whistle. Think of it as a
> recorder in C, but without the 7th finger hole for the low C. (Warning;
> some people will argue violently against this approach, but it works
> anyway!)That's what I was really meaning, even if I didn't say it. I've not
found a note yet where it's useful to have the thumb hole open - D on
recorder does, but while you can do this in cornett, T123456 seems to work
nicer. Pinching of the thumb hole just isn't necessary, as it overblows
like a brass instrument (i.e. easier than a recorder). F's I find sweeter
without the bottom hole covered, as it then seems too flat, and can be
bent all over the place anyway.> Higher is a good goal. Louder is questionable. Figure that your volume
> should balance evenly with a violin, and go for a beautiful sound rather
> than a loud one. Overdriving the instrument to match a modern trumpet will
> NOT give you a beautiful sound!Yes - it sounds like a distressed elephant when I really pump it.
Thanks for the advice,
Dave Taylor---------------------------------------------------------
From: LeliaLoban@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 08:39:56 EST
Subject: World's largest harp!
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comCheck out CNN Headline News today (Wednesday, Nov. 3) for an entertainment
piece (repeated numerous times per day) about the world's largest harp, just
installed in the Financial Center Winter Garden in New York City. The
strings on this beastie stretch up to 330 ft. long. The report didn't
mention the lowest pitch, but even on my crummy TV sound system, the monster
produced a most impressive bass, along with a wide range of tones up into the
treble range. The musicians, a group of five called Mass Ensemble, uses a
cherry picker to tune the harp. To play it, they don't pluck, but run their
fingers (Jimi Hendrix style, as the reporter pointed out) up and down the
strings. One guy was playing "Louie, Louie" on it. The musicians wear
gloves to keep skin oils off the strings. The report didn't get into much
detail. Does anyone know where to find out more?Lelia
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 07:04:47 -0700 (MST)
From: Shouryu Nohe <jnohe@nmsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Sax Jazz Mouthpiece
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
On Tue, 2 Nov 1999 RBobo123@aol.com wrote:> I'm trying to help a friend of mine out here. He's looking for a good Metal
> Jazz Mouthpiece, for a Intermediate level Alto Sax (i can find out more about
> the horn if nessicary). Can anybody recomend an afordable one for himIn all truth, metal alto mpcs aren't all that great unless you are dying
for a unbelievably bright sound - mainly for a sound that could cut
through a marching band (which is a bit much in my opinion). Selmer makes
fine metal mpcs, as does Yanigasawa (VERY bright).If your friend wants a good LEAD alto sound (as in lead/soloist in a Jazz
combo or ensemble), then hard rubber is the way to go. I think a lot of
alto saxophonists would agree with me that this is often the case (with
exception of course). In such a case my reccomendation is a Meyer 5M or
6M (facing/chambersize). This has a PERFECT lead alto sound.Now tenor...there you want metal. In fact, a lot of clubs in Seattle
won't even hire a tenor saxophonist unless he or she is using a metal
Otto, which I have no compunction with, since, unlike alto, metal Ottos
have a very round sound on tenor...J. Shouryu Nohe
http://web.nmsu.edu/~jnohe
Professor of SCSM102, New Mexico State Univ.
"If I wanted a 'job,' I'd have gone music ED, thank you very much!"---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 11:15:29 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Request for sound clips.
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>I do recall one stunning track that Anthony Braxton did with a bass sax and
>M. Richard Abrams at the piano. Hopefully he did more low-instrumental
>explorations.He did - many more. Although his primary instrument seems to always
have been alto sax, there are many recordings of him playing bass and
contrabass sax, contrabass clarinet, and contralto clarinet (both
curved Leblancs), as well as soprano and sopranino sax, and soprano
clarinet. Flute on occasion. I know of no example of him playing
tenor or bari sax. There is also apparently a CD on which he plays
contrabass flute. I've been hunting this one down for some time now:
"Eight by Three" (1996 Mixtery 00001), with Borah Bergman, Anthony
Braxton, and Peter Brotzman. Has anyone run across it?Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 11:44:36 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Oboe with Sax Fingerings
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>SOmeone's selling an "oboe with sax fingerings." Does
>such a thing exist?Yes, although I think only as antiques. Earlier this century, a few
makers made oboes (sometimes out of metal) that had sax-like keywork
instead of the normal oboe keywork. I think the object was to make
instruments that sax players could use in pit orchestras.>I was wondering, why don't they make a whole line of
>instruments (sax, bassoon, oboe, and flute) all with
>the clarinet fingerings so that clarinetists can play
>any woodwind with no trouble? What would be the
>acoustic properties of such an instrument? And has it
>ever been done before?Well, clarinet keywork would not be a good choice: the clarinet has a
number of "extra" keys that are necessary to bridge the lower octave
to the upper octave. If you look at a simpler instrument, e.g.,
recorder or sax, the basic scale can be played easily using
essentially no keys at all (if we count the main stacks as tone holes
rather than "keys"). Sax, of course, has the lower range extended
down to Bb (or A) by a few extra keys, but the main C - C or D - D
scale doesn't require anything additional. Overblowing the octave on
these instruments brings you back to essentially the same fingering
pattern, without a gap. Clarinet, in contrast, has a gap. If you
didn't have the LH4 and RH4 keys, or the throat keys, your scale
would be F (or G) to G in the low register, and C (or D) to C in the
upper register. The throat keys and the LH4/RH4 keys were added to
fill that gap, but are not necessary for instrument that overblow at
the octave rather than the 12th. Once you discard those keys, what
you have left is not very different from flute or sax anyway.As for acoustic properties, it depends on how far you go. For
example, several people have tried to make a Boehm bassoon, with
large tone holes placed in acoustically logical locations. The
result apparently does not sound much like a bassoon. The bassoon
timbre apparently relies on the odd acoustics of its bore and very
long tone holes (in the wing joint) for much of its character. I
think the wing joint bore must substantially muffle the bassoon's
timbre, as otherwise the narrow conical bore should provide a very
bright, piercing buzz (e.g., brighter than a sarrusophone). On the
other hand, if you're *not* going to rearrange the tone holes
(thereby preserving the acoustics), you have the nightmare of trying
to invent keys that transform a Boehm fingering system into the
bassoonist's equivalent...>I bet it would bring in a lot of money if they found
>out some way to do it without severely altering the
>sound.Well, maybe, maybe not. Many (most?) serious musicians either (a)
aren't all that interested in playing other instruments, or (b) if
they *are* interested, may be interested in the challenge of learning
new fingerings and techniques. I suspect that the main market would
be for amateur woodwind doublers (a relatively small portion of
woodwind players in general, who comprise a fairly small percentage
of the population as it is), and that the instruments would be
derided by the serious pros (who already have a lot invested in
learning the different fingerings and techniques, etc.). With
professional antipathy, it might be hard to launch as a product.Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 11:48:10 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: World's largest harp!
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>Check out CNN Headline News today (Wednesday, Nov. 3) for an entertainment
>piece (repeated numerous times per day) about the world's largest harp, just
>installed in the Financial Center Winter Garden in New York City. The
>strings on this beastie stretch up to 330 ft. long. The report didn't
>mention the lowest pitch, but even on my crummy TV sound system, the monster
>produced a most impressive bass, along with a wide range of tones up into the
>treble range. The musicians, a group of five called Mass Ensemble, uses a
>cherry picker to tune the harp. To play it, they don't pluck, but run their
>fingers (Jimi Hendrix style, as the reporter pointed out) up and down the
>strings. One guy was playing "Louie, Louie" on it. The musicians wear
>gloves to keep skin oils off the strings. The report didn't get into much
>detail. Does anyone know where to find out more?Try http://www.suba.com/~mass/insts.html - are these the same people?
The technique sounds like the Ellen Fullman Long String Instrument,
which has groups of strings 30', 60', and 90' long, that are
suspended waist-high and played by people walking along rubbing the
strings with rosin-coated fingers. The longitudinal vibration (along
the length of the string) is much higher frequency than the
transverse vibration (side to side), so one needs much longer strings
to bring the playing pitch down to a reasonable octave.Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 13:50:45 -0600
From: "Aaron J. Rabushka" <arabushk@cowtown.net>
Subject: Re: World's largest harp!
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI would hope that a splendid instrument like that could be used for more than "Louie! Louie!"
--
Aaron J. Rabushka
arabushk@cowtown.net
http://www.cowtown.net/users/arabushk
--
---------------------------------------------------------From: RBobo123@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 17:46:42 EST
Subject: Odd bassoon key
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comWhile rumaging through EBay, i found this. What stuck me as odd was that
there are 5 keys instead 4 for the Left Thumb on the long Joint. DOes
anybody have any idea what this key might do?<A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=191591684">Cl
ick here: eBay item 191591684 (Ends 11/07/99, 11:17:13 PST) - Bassoon Buffet
Crampon & Co. Paris</A>
---------------------------------------------------------From: Opusnandy@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 17:54:44 EST
Subject: Re: Odd bassoon key
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIn a message dated 11/3/1999 5:47:24 PM, RBobo123@aol.com writes:
<< While rumaging through EBay, i found this. What stuck me as odd was that
there are 5 keys instead 4 for the Left Thumb on the long Joint. DOes
anybody have any idea what this key might do? >>I didn't see the picture yet, but I have seen 3 different uses for a 5th
thumb key on the bassoon long joint. Most common is an extra plate for low C
for people with smaller hands. This is usually put just to the right of the
regular low C key. Sometimes you will find a C#-D# trill key located just
above the low C key (you hold this key down to produce low C# without the use
of your left pinky, then you can trill to the D# using the pinky). I have
also seen an alternate low D# key located just to the right of the low D key.
Again, this allows the playing of a note that usually requires the left
pinky while keeping that finger free for other things.Jon Carreira
Mostly bassoon
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 14:59:17 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Odd bassoon key
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>While rumaging through EBay, i found this. What stuck me as odd was that
>there are 5 keys instead 4 for the Left Thumb on the long Joint. DOes
>anybody have any idea what this key might do?Not off hand: what you see there is a French bassoon. Its fingering
system will be substantially different from the "German"/Heckel
system bassoon prevalent throughout the world. The French bassoon is
also supposed to have a distinct timbre, with a more "vocal" sound in
the upper registers: there is some speculation that Stravinsky had
this sound in mind when he wrote the opening bassoon solo in the Rite
of Spring. I seem to recall some authority saying that the ideal
orchestral bassoon section was a French bassoon on top, and a German
bassoon on 2nd.If I remember right, it also takes a larger reed.
Enjoy!
Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 17:17:24 -0600
From: "Aaron J. Rabushka" <arabushk@cowtown.net>
Subject: Concerts in Bucharest
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comPlease note that the Living Music Foundation concerts that will feature several works of mine as well as of several other American composers have been finalized for December 6-7 in the Sala Enescu in Bucharest, Romania.
--
Aaron J. Rabushka
arabushk@cowtown.net
http://www.cowtown.net/users/arabushk
--
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