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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 17:01:12 -0800
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: RE: cornetts
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>Sadly, we have no serpents - the University budget doesn't stretch that
>far; we only have cornetts because they are cheap resin ones. I'd also
>love to have a go on a serpent, but I don't know where to go to find one.
>I'm also a bit mystified as to how holes so relatively close together as
>they appear on photographs of the serpent can produce anything like a
>chromatic scale.Apart from the fact that the holes are drilled at various angles
(like the wing joint fingerholes on the bassoon), I think one is able
to lip the pitches a huge degree. There is apparently a
demonstration stunt popular with cornett and serpent players, which
consists of playing a descending scale while apparently fingering an
ascending scale (and/or vice versa).Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:42:49 EST
Subject: Custom Grown Sackbuts
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
In a message dated 11/01/1999 11:15:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Colin.HARRIS@dfee.gov.uk writes:<<
If you go to the serpent websites at http://web.wwa.com/~ocleide/ and
http://www.music.ed.ac.uk/euchmi/ujt/ujt2929.html, there is mention of
serpents which have been made out of modern materials, quote:"Other materials have been tried, primarily by modern craftsmen attempting
to find easier ways of making Serpents. The structural foam resins,
fibreglass and high-tech composites have met with some success. However,
good old wood remains the favourite, and due to modern woodworking
techniques, the French method of hollowing out a solid block of wood finds
favour even for reproduction of English and Military style instruments."The dimension etc. are all there on these webpages: basically you need
graduating lengths of pipe which you can bend, and then cover to air-tight
them. I would love to have a go at it - it doesn't sound to hard if you
have access to the right lengths of pipe and tools. I'm sure any band room
would have bits and pieces for a crook.
>>
I went to a seminar on serpents at Boston's Museum of Fine Arts. They have a
rather nice collection of old instruments. On display (visitting from
Connecticut) was a contrabass serpent as well as a soprano which was built
more for a display by its maker. Anyhoo, there was discussion of how with the
hollowing out technique, certain sections of the serpent would be more likely
to crack because the grain of the wood didn't didn't follow the curve of the
serpent. I suggested the first thing that came to mind: growing trees in the
shape of a serpent. You'd have to train the trees constantly in the style of
a vine. I was basically laughed at and called a mean task master, but they
admitted that the "trained tree" serpent would be much stronger. Of course I
was talking straight out of my imagination, but if there are any arborists
into B&D out there....................
---------------------------------------------------------From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:44:33 EST
Subject: Re: Custom Grown Sackbuts...err SERPENTS!
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comSorry about the title, But whaddya want?! I'm a bone player!!!
Heliboneman
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 17:52:23 -0800
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Custom Grown Sackbuts
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>more for a display by its maker. Anyhoo, there was discussion of how with the
>hollowing out technique, certain sections of the serpent would be more likely
>to crack because the grain of the wood didn't didn't follow the curve of the
>serpent. I suggested the first thing that came to mind: growing trees in the
>shape of a serpent. You'd have to train the trees constantly in the style of
>a vine. I was basically laughed at and called a mean task master, but they
>admitted that the "trained tree" serpent would be much stronger. Of course I
>was talking straight out of my imagination, but if there are any arborists
>into B&D out there....................Aren't bonsai trees essentially "trained" that way? I seem to recall
reading that bonsai trees are grown by wrapping wire around the trunk
to make sure that it adopts the desired shape. So, what you'd want
would be a giant bonsai serpent tree - now *there's* an oxymoron ;-)Now that you've disclosed the idea, its time for you to write it up
as a provisional patent application and send it in to the United
States Patent & Trademark office (USPTO). Costs around $75 to file...Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:15:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Adam Kent-Isaac <lokibassoon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Growing Serpents
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comWhat you have got to do is:
First, make a hollow clay mold of the serpent you
desire. Make sure that the bottom and the top are not
sealed. Obviously, just the body; not the mouthpiece
or neck.Now, plant a seed in the ground. Any kind of tree seed
which you want.Then, cover the area where you planted the seed with
the bottom end of the clay mold, so esentially the
serpent mold is a planter, with no bottom.Now wait a while. Eventually the tree willl grow
around the confines of this space, in a vine-like
fashion, until it fills the mold.Then, take a hammer and crack the mold. Cut off the
desired legnth of wood. Then fashion the mouthpiece
and neck from a molded brass, or from an english horn
bocal with a french horn mouthpiece on the end. Or you
can use a trumpet or tuba mouthpiece lead-pipe.Or, if you're a real nature boy, go down to the creek
and grab the biggest snake you can find.......
-Adam
=====__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
---------------------------------------------------------From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 23:28:17 EST
Subject: Re: Growing Serpents
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIn a message dated 11/01/1999 10:16:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
lokibassoon@yahoo.com writes:<< First, make a hollow clay mold of the serpent you
desire. >>I suspect being entirely bound in clay would totally prevent the poor sapling
in bondage from breathing or taking necessary sunlight for photosynthesis. I
think I'd favor building a metal S cage for it to wind its way through. But
all this trouble seems like FAR too much trouble for an instrument that has
such a crummy sound! I'd much rather play a serpent version of those plastic
horns you always see at parades or at New Years Eve. Might sound as good as
the wooden ones...or BETTER!
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Tom Izzo" <jeanvaljean@ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: cornetts
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 00:47:43 -0600
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com> >Sadly, we have no serpents - the University budget doesn't stretch that
> >far; we only have cornetts because they are cheap resin ones. I'd also
> >love to have a go on a serpent, but I don't know where to go to find one.
> >I'm also a bit mystified as to how holes so relatively close together as
> >they appear on photographs of the serpent can produce anything like a
> >chromatic scale.
>For more information on the Serpent and one of it's great exponents, visit
my friend, Douglas Yeo's website: http://www.yeodoug.com
Doug is the Bass Trombonist of the Boston Symphony Orchestra & Boston Pops,
& a freequent doubler on the Serpent among other things.
He has 2 Church Serpents, a Serpet (Tenor Serpent) & a Worm (Soprano
Serpent). A year ago he played one of the only two Anacondas (Contrabass
Serpent) currently in captivity, for a Tanglewood special program. You can
see pictures of all four varieties on his website.
The Boston Globe describes Yeo as "The greatest public defender of the
Serpent."> Apart from the fact that the holes are drilled at various angles
> (like the wing joint fingerholes on the bassoon), I think one is able
> to lip the pitches a huge degree. There is apparently a
> demonstration stunt popular with cornett and serpent players, which
> consists of playing a descending scale while apparently fingering an
> ascending scale (and/or vice versa).the apparent backwards fingering is how the Ophicleide is built. As you
"close" a key, you raise the pitch. Actually each key opens a hole, not closes one.Tom
---------------------------------------------------------From: <Colin.HARRIS@dfee.gov.uk>
Subject: Homeworker Serpent.
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 09:54:08 -0000
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI know you are not supposed to reply to your own post, but I informed my
wife of my project idea, and first of all she said when do I get time,
secondly where would I get the bits, and thirdly that the house isn't big
enough.Not to be put off, but it is nice to have spousal support for such eccentric ideas(!)
Off to find a pipe manufacturer......
Colin Harris
Eb Bass
Backworth Colliery Band
http://www.backworth.org.uk
See "A Day in the Life of Backworth Colliery Band" at
http://www.backworth.org.uk/life.htm
---------------------------------------------------------
From: <Colin.HARRIS@dfee.gov.uk>
Subject: Request for sound clips.
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:13:31 -0000
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
Dear list,Have any of you good chaps know of, or have, any sound clips of the
following in action:Contrabass Trombone
Contrabass ClarinetEither as a solo, or in an ensemble.
I am don't see the point buying The Ring or Gurrelieider just to hear a
couple of notes!!!
Colin Harris
Eb Bass
Backworth Colliery Band
http://www.backworth.org.uk <http://www.backworth.org.uk>
See "A Day in the Life of Backworth Colliery Band" at
http://www.backworth.org.uk/life.htm <http://www.backworth.org.uk/life.htm>
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 08:20:17 -0600
From: "Aaron J. Rabushka" <arabushk@cowtown.net>
Subject: Re: Request for sound clips.
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comKrzysztof Penderecki was quite fond of the contrabass clarinet at one point and may still be. You can hear one in his opera "The Devils of Loudun" (where the only two clarinets are an e-flat and a contrabass) and also in his Capriccio for Violin and Orchestra (recommended recording: Zukofsky/Foss/Buffalo). IIRC Xenakis's work "Akrata" features a lower-than-bass clarinet of some sort.
--
Aaron J. Rabushka
arabushk@cowtown.net
http://www.cowtown.net/users/arabushk
--
---------------------------------------------------------From: <Colin.HARRIS@dfee.gov.uk>
Subject: RE: Request for sound clips.
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 14:25:58 -0000
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI was actually looking for clips on the 'net i.e. wav, mp3 etc. Thanks for the help, though.
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 10:26:12 EST
Subject: Re: Request for sound clips.
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
In a message dated 11/02/1999 8:30:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Colin.HARRIS@dfee.gov.uk writes:<< Have any of you good chaps know of, or have, any sound clips of the
following in action:Contrabass Trombone
Contrabass ClarinetEither as a solo, or in an ensemble.
I am don't see the point buying The Ring or Gurrelieider just to hear a
couple of notes!!!
>>Awwww, go ahead!
Support the artists who have to spend the big bucks on the big horns!
Just a suggestion.
---------------------------------------------------------From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 10:33:02 EST
Subject: Re: cornetts
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIn a message dated 11/02/1999 12:53:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jeanvaljean@ntsource.com writes:<< > Apart from the fact that the holes are drilled at various angles
> (like the wing joint fingerholes on the bassoon), I think one is able
> to lip the pitches a huge degree. There is apparently a
> demonstration stunt popular with cornett and serpent players, which
> consists of playing a descending scale while apparently fingering an
> ascending scale (and/or vice versa).the apparent backwards fingering is how the Ophicleide is built. As you
"close" a key, you raise the pitch. Actually each key opens a hole, not closes one.
>>
I saw Doug's demonstration of the serpent family at the MFA in Boston an
apparently fingering on the serpent doesn't matter that much. It's all in the
lip. The instrument apparently isn't all THAT resonant so that an open finger
hole isn't going to disturb the pitch more than just a little bit.
---------------------------------------------------------From: <Colin.HARRIS@dfee.gov.uk>
Subject: RE: Request for sound clips.
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 15:39:46 -0000
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comYou want to see the price of the said CD's in England! Rip-off Britain!
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 12:44:44 -0500
From: John Howell <John.Howell@vt.edu>
Subject: cornetts
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>From: Dafydd y garreg wen <mavnw@csv.warwick.ac.uk>
>
>As part of a new Early Music Consort here at Warwick University, I'm
>learning the cornett. The trouble is that I'm doing it entirely on my own
>- I don't have any instuction books or anything similar at all. I've got
>the fingering working (just like a tin whistle),Actually no; you've got the thumb hole to deal with, and your F in both
octaves is probably supposed to be a forked fingering: T 123 4-6. It's
closer to recorder fingering than to tin whistle. Think of it as a
recorder in C, but without the 7th finger hole for the low C. (Warning;
some people will argue violently against this approach, but it works anyway!)>but I'm rather concerned
>about my way of blowing it. I'm a Bass Trombone/Euph player primarily, so,
>although I have a decent high range, this is rather different from what I
>normally do. I find that the best results can be obtained by placing the
>mouthpiece rather off-centre to avoid the peak in the middle of the top
>lip, which just doesn't fit into the (tiny) mouthpiece.There's lots of historical (mostly iconographical) information that
suggests they played it exactly that way. I'm a brass doubler, and grew up
playing slightly off center because I had an extra tooth in the way. (It
was finally removed by an Air Force dentist who played trumpet and assured
me it wouldn't mess up my playing, and he was right!) I tried even more
off-center when I started playing cornetto and it worked beautifully for
me. It's a very individual matter. Most trumpet players are more
comfortable centered, even with the tiny acorn mouthpiece. But for a low
brass player, by all means find the "sweet spot" and use it!>This means that
>I'm squeezing rather, but as the backbore of the mouthpiece is so small
>(about a millimetre across!), this doesn't really affect the sound, and
>certainly allows me to play louder and higher.Higher is a good goal. Louder is questionable. Figure that your volume
should balance evenly with a violin, and go for a beautiful sound rather
than a loud one. Overdriving the instrument to match a modern trumpet will
NOT give you a beautiful sound!>Even better would be a good method book (cheap in
>an ideal world).Track down the Christopher Monk workshop on the Net and inquire about
method books. They make them, so they should know. (And they're in the UK.)John
John & Susie Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:John.Howell@vt.edu)
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 20:18:21 +0000 (GMT)
From: tomfox@cloudcuckooland.co.uk
Subject: RE: cornetts
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
David Harding, near Oxford makes pretty decent quality resin serpents, which are quite affordable, at A400. I can give you his details if you want them.
As regards the holes and the chromatics, thery're not really that chromatic. Serpents are one of the most out of tune instruments you'll find, you have to do a lot of work with the lip to get all of the notes in tune. Fortunately, you can bend the notes quite a long way (B and C are the same fingering, so you have to there).
Tom Fox
P.S. Playing out of the side of your mouth shouldn't be a problem, but it'd be best to make sure that your euph/trombone mouthpiece stays where it should be.
----------------------------------------------------------
"like Hotmail but faster and a lot better"
Carol Vorderman, The Mirror, writing about http://www.funmail.co.uk
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 11:16:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Adam Kent-Isaac <lokibassoon@yahoo.com>
Subject: use of the low clarinets in music
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comThis is just CDs not any internet music.
Actually, strange as it seems, the film scores by
Danny Elfman who diod Men in Black, Mission impossible
and Nightmare before Christmas used the contrabass
clarinet an awful lot. Especially in the Nightmare
before christmas. Buy this sound track and listen to
Number Seven. The Oboe portrays Jack as he tries to
explain christmas, and the Bassoon, Contrabassoon,
Bass Clarinet, Contrabass clarinet and Bass Saxophone
portray the chatter of the mischevious monsters.I might also mention, buy "Rush Hour" by Gunther
Schuller, with Joe Lovano. Dennis Smylie's on here,
playing contrabass clarinet, and has some solos and soli's.-Adam
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 11:17:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Adam Kent-Isaac <lokibassoon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Contrabass Clarinet
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comAlso, go search for the web pages of any clarinet
choir. Most of these choirs have at least an Eb Bass
clarinet, and they often post their clips on their sites.-Adam
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 11:31:22 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Paris?
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comMy wife and I will be spending a week in Paris later this month,
unfettered by children or work. Along with all the traditional
tourist sights (Louvre, Versailles, etc.) and cuisine, are there any
characteristic French things to experience, particularly with some
relation to music? Does anyone know of a reputable Parisian dealer
in sarrusophones, ophicleides, and/or related curiosities?
Especially stuff that's so large it will need to be shipped ;-)Now taking suggestions :-)
Thanks,
Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 12:23:34 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: CD Review
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI received my copy of "[Bassoon Recital]" by Arthur Grossman (1999,ARTBSN Recordings, ARTBSN97) yesterday, and recommend it. Most of the CD is fine bassoon + piano work, ending with "Down in the Deep Cellar" for contra and piano, and "Contradiction" for contrabassoon duet (with Michael Jolivet on the other contra). All of the bassoons and contras were made by Wolf, so I suppose this also serves as a demo CD for their work. Each selection on the CD lists the instrument by serial number, type of wood (except for the contras), and bocal type. Michael, any idea what a Wolf contra runs?
The selections are:
As was mentioned earlier, the CDs are available directly from Dr. Grossman. I'm not sure that he wants his home address posted on the web, but I'll send it to you if you email me (I imagine Michael would also).
- Sonata Op. 9 (Gustav Schreck)
- Sonata Op. 168 (Camille Saint-Saens)
- Impressions Ni=E7oise (Antoine Tisne)
- Habanera (Maurice Ravel)
- Sonata [1938] (Paul Hindemith)
- Down in the Deep Cellar (Ferdinand Del Negro)
- Contraction (Graham Powning)
Enjoy!
Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 16:44:38 EST
Subject: Re: Request for sound clips.
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIn a message dated 11/02/1999 10:43:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Colin.HARRIS@dfee.gov.uk writes:<< You want to see the price of the said CD's in England! Rip-off Britain! >>
Ahh! I'm starting to understand.
---------------------------------------------------------From: RBobo123@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 18:19:24 EST
Subject: Sax Jazz Mouthpiece
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI'm trying to help a friend of mine out here. He's looking for a good Metal
Jazz Mouthpiece, for a Intermediate level Alto Sax (i can find out more about
the horn if nessicary). Can anybody recomend an afordable one for himP.s. I know this isn't a contrabass subject, sorry
---------------------------------------------------------From: CoolStu67@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 18:23:38 EST
Subject: Re: Sax Jazz Mouthpiece
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
<<
I'm trying to help a friend of mine out here. He's looking for a good Metal
Jazz Mouthpiece, for a Intermediate level Alto Sax (i can find out more about
the horn if nessicary). Can anybody recomend an afordable one for him
>>Don't go with metal--- from what I hear, they just aren't effective on alto.
Metal MPs work better for tenor, and a fine hard rubber will provide just as
much, if not more, power and projection for alto. From personal experience, I
recommend a Meyer 5M or a Rosseau JDX 6 (for extra edge) on alto. The Meyer
5M seems to be a starting point for alto jazz players.Stuart
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