Contrabass Digest
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email gdgreen@contrabass.com

 
 

1999-04-05

 
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:04:15 -0500
From: John Howell <John.Howell@vt.edu>
Subject: Contrabassoon tone
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

>From: "BROCK IMISON" <bimison@hotmail.com> asked:
>I don't know about anyone else, but I'm a little fed up of hearing an
>ugly, pitchless buzzy sound coming from Contrafags on nearly every
>recording I listen to, in fact I'm guilty of producing this sound too.
>Is a more Tuba/Double Bass like sound too much to ask???

OK, that's a player's point of view.  You love your instrument, and you
want it to sound the best it can.  Fair enough.

Now, who writes the parts you play?  Composers.  Why do they write for
contra?  Because they want the sound a contra makes, which happens to be
"reedy tone quality."  If they want the sound of a tuba, will they score
for contra and say "sound like a tuba"?  No.  They'll write for a tuba and
you won't get hired!  And the "pitchless" problem is simple acoustics.  A
low A sounds 55 hz, and is getting pretty close to the threshold where the
human mind no longer percieves the vibrations as a pitch but as individual
vibrations.

Of course I could argue from the other direction just as well.  Most
composers are pianists.  They write music using the entire range of the
piano, which means down to the sub-contra A.  What is the one instrument
that can go down there?  You got it!  Which would argue for composers'
writing for contra not because they want its sound but because it's the
only way to get the notes.

Except, of course (prepare to run screaming from the room!), a synthesizer!

John

John & Susie Howell (mailto:John.Howell@vt.edu)
Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411   Fax (540) 231-5034
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
 

---------------------------------------------------------

From: CoolStu67@aol.com
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:32:09 EDT
Subject: Re: Contrabassoon tone
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

Let's all write Leblanc telling them to add another foot to the contrabass clarinet...
(ya know, a low B extension? <grin>)

Stuart
-Sax (Soprano/Alto)
-Clarinet (Eb/Bb/Bass/Contralto)

<<
 Of course I could argue from the other direction just as well.  Most
 composers are pianists.  They write music using the entire range of the
 piano, which means down to the sub-contra A.  What is the one instrument
 that can go down there?  You got it!  Which would argue for composers'
 writing for contra not because they want its sound but because it's the
 only way to get the notes.
>>

---------------------------------------------------------

From: "Harry Searing" <hsearing@home.com>
Subject: re: contrabassoon tone
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 07:29:02 -0400
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
Dear Brock,

To buzz or not to buzz!

That is the question that consumes all double reed players.

Especially contrabassoonists. I've found that the larger the reed, the more
difficult it is to know just how much buzz is showing up in your sound to
other people. One has to realize the difference between the buzzing one
hears in one's head while playing a contra and how much actually ends up in
your sound to the real world. This is all dependent upon numerous factors:
 

  1. your own concept of how a contra (or bassoon) should sound
  2. your equipment
    1.     reed
    2.     bocal
    3.     instrument
  3. your embouchure (or lack thereof)
  4. your support (breath control or again, the lack thereof)


I love my teacher from college, Stephen Maxym. Absolutely loved his bassoon
sound and what he could do on the instrument. But when he and I would work
on my contra reeds, he would take what I thought were finished reeds and
trim them down so much that the sound was so covered, both in your head and
to other people, that the sound/reed barely projected beyond your own music
stand. I eventually chalked it up to the fact that he didn't play contra
that much and that he liked a 'dark' sound on the contra. A bit different
from his idea on the bassoon where he would change his sound to meet the
musical needs accordingly.

You need to work with and play for people whose opinion you respect, or at
least people who you think will know what to say regarding the sound of a
contra.

Buzz is not necessarily bad, if it's sort of "in" the sound. It can help the
sound project. Whereas a totally covered sound might sound good up close,
but not project. But neither is wrong, it just depends on your needs or
situation, recording session, large concert hall, chamber ensemble,
whatever.

To get to your question of how to minimise the reedy tone quality, I have a
couple of suggestions.

1. If your reed is basically free-blowing, I would suggest you start by
trimming down the extreme sides of the reed. Just as on the bassoon, this
area makes a reed difficult to play, or maybe just a little stiff. But
trimming from half-way up the blade (or maybe less) towards the tip, on the
extreme sides (3 or 4 fibers wide), should start to do the trick.

2. If you have trouble attacking notes, perhaps the tip isn't finished
enough. While this sounds like the wrong thing to do (make the tip thinner
to decrease buzz), I find that this type of reed takes too much air to get
vibrating, and thus is a bit buzzier than usual.

In either of the above cases, the reed is doing what I would call 'rattling'
as opposed to vibrating. You need for it to vibrate.

3. Examine your embouchure. Do you 'cover' the reed with a lot of lips? Do
you take a lot of reed into your mouth? Play around.

Sorry to get long winded, but this topic hits home! I'm always working to
get just the right tone on contra.

Good luck!

Harry Searing
NYC bassoon/contrabassoon free lancer

---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 21:34:32 -0400
From: "Gerald E. Corey" <jerrylv@magi.com>
Subject: Re: contrabassoon tone
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

Dear list (and contrabassoonists everywhere),

 Harry has left a very excellent set of valuable ideas for improving the
tone of contrabassoons by adjusting the reeds.
 I am not a full-time contra player, but I love the instrument and
frequently work on reeds for friends for the contra. After a visit to
the home of Richard Plaster, for many years the superb contra-bassoon
artist of the Boston Symphony, I asked Richard for his best scrape
pattern for contra reeds. This is what he answered:

" I leave the tip of the reed a little on the thick side - it does not
have to be as refined as do most good bassoon reeds. Next, I leave a
center heart area which begins behind the tip in the middle and goes
back to 5 mm before the collar line. This "heart area" is large,
covering much of the "middle section" of the reed. Now, I trim the sides
and the back of the reed blades to let this "central heart area" stand
out in relief."

As I have modified many of my contrabasson reeds towards Richard
Plaster's suggested model, I have achieved a big, resonant tone with
minimum excessive vibration and (unwanted) buzziness. I hope those who
read this list and the doublereed-l will give Mr. Plaster's trim ideas a
try. It would be good to hear of your reactions, fellow
contra-bassoonists. Sincerely, Gerald Corey, Ottawa
 

---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:40:50 -0400
From: Jim Katz <JimKatz@JohnAbbott.qc.ca>
Subject: Contrabassoon tone
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

This is currently under discussion on the Doublereed List. I have sent you
the relevant digest with those messages privately.

>From: "BROCK IMISON" <bimison@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Contrabassoon tone
>Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 06:33:08 PDT
>Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
>I don't know about anyone else, but I'm a little fed up of hearing an
>ugly, pitchless buzzy sound coming from Contrafags on nearly every
>recording I listen to, in fact I'm guilty of producing this sound too.
>Is a more Tuba/Double Bass like sound too much to ask??? Can anyone in
>Contra-land suggest how to minimise the reedy tone quality, and to
>produce a smooth, organ-pedal like sound---even at fortissimo???? I
>realise a reed made from two pieces of brick (joke) would probably do
>the trick, but apart from being painful to play on, the pitch would be
>too irregular. If it helps, I play on a Mollenhauer.
>
>Hoping this isn't an impossible task...
>Brock, Australia
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
 

Jim Katz
a distant second bassoon
I Medici di McGill
Physician Orchestra
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
 

---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:45:54 -0400
From: Jim Katz <JimKatz@johnabbott.qc.ca>
Subject: contrabassoon tone
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

>I don't know about anyone else, but I'm a little fed up of hearing an
>ugly, pitchless buzzy sound coming from Contrafags on nearly every
>recording I listen to, in fact I'm guilty of producing this sound too.
>Is a more Tuba/Double Bass like sound too much to ask???
 

Now this is interesting. I noticed just the opposite on a recent recording:
"The Bassoon Brothers-WANTED".  It is a wonderful CD, with the precious
quality of being listenable repeated times. The only problem I found with
it was that the otherwise beautiful contra playing does not sound like a
member of the bassoon family. It lacked a bit of buzz and that medieval
murky quality Frank Zappa alluded to in the famous quote; at leat to my
ears.  Instead the contrabassoon sounded like what I imagine a wooden tuba
might be like - far too civilized....

Jim Katz
a distant second bassoon
I Medici di McGill
Physician Orchestra
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
 

---------------------------------------------------------

From: SaxKicker@aol.com
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:28:52 EDT
Subject: Re: Contrabass agility
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

Sarah

Thank you, you are the first person who wants to know more. What I mean is
everyone else sending messages just doesn't want to know the facts about my
playing.

Replies to your questions,

<<you would tell us some of the things you did to become a super
great player?>>
Well, Sarah I started playing sax around 5th grade. I was in a little
elementary school band. About half way through the year I decided to take
private lessons. I took them for about 7 years going through only 2 teachers.
When I got to high school I joined the band there. I was in it for all four
years. I decided to keep on playing after all it would have been a pretty big
waste if I quite after 7 years of lessons and band fees. So I kept it up
getting more and more advanced, joining city after city band until I reached
now.

<<What kind of music do you play most?>>
Well, thats a tough one because I really like playing swing but Classical
charts are very fun too.

<<What kinds of
bands to you play in?>>

Well, the first major band I played in I guess would have to be my highschool
band "The Don Bosco Royal Techmen Band." We weren't all that good, pretty
mediocre. My sophomore year I joined the Claremont City marching band. After
my senior year I was chosen to be in the PCC band of Pasadena. If you don't
what band that is its one that always marches in the "Rose Parade." I also
have been in several Jazz bands not big enough to really have been known.

<<What kind of sax do you have?>>

Ohh I'm so glad you asked that question. Its a beauty. It is a Professional
Selmer Paris Model 55AF. Complete with engraved bell, low A and High F# keys,
Water resistant pads, Bari Brand Gold plated metal mouth piece, Brillhart
hard rubber mouth piece with large bore and low baffle. (more than you wanted
know)

<<What is the
secret of playing really fast on a big instrument?>>

Well, there's really no secret to playing fast on large instruments. I know
this if you are playing a many keyed instrment like a sax or clarinet, you
must keep your fingers as close to the keys as possible without playing wrong
notes. This will ensure faster action of notes. If you have trouble doing
this, try puting little pieces of tape on the keys so that the tape sticks to
your fingers and the keys. This will physically show you on which fingerings
you are making flying fingers. It will also help you keep the figers on the
keys.

Ask anytime for advise or info on sax playing, I do know a little about most
woodwinds too.

Matt(Bari sax player)
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:12:35 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Helicon FS...
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

Here's today's batch:
 


Enjoy!

Grant

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green            gdgreen@contrabass.com
                    http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:51:24 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Another concert...
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com

I've just discovered that the San Jose Wind Symphony has a concert
tentatively scheduled for November 20 @ 7:30 PM with the Nuclear Whales.
More details when I have some...

Grant

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green            gdgreen@contrabass.com
                    http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 
Next Digest ->
Previous Digest <-
Index
Top