Contrabass Digest
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1999-01-02

 
list                           Sat, 2 Jan 1999            Volume 1 : Number 72

In this issue:
 


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 21:37:54 EST
From: Fmmck
To: CoolStu67
Subject: Re:  Re: Albert Alto Clarinet?

In a message dated 1/1/99 7:23:46 PM, CoolStu67 wrote:

<<How can Yamaha be stencil of Vito, if they're two completely different
companies? I lean to understand both companies just know what student horns
should have...
>>

Stuart-

Perhaps someone has inside information.  Perhaps they are two different instruments.

If you started with a Brand-X plastic instrument, you may tend to be loyal,
and move up to a higher level instrument from the same company.  (At least it
works that way with cars, cameras and computers!)  If they had found it
uneconomical to produce the least expensive version of an instrument, they
might contract with another reputable company to produce a "stencil" model,
since it is in their interest to have a complete line.

Fred McKenzie

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 22:08:47 -0500 (EST)
From: merlinw
Subject: Stencilling (was alto clarinets)

On 01/01/99 19:23:03 you wrote:

>How can Yamaha be stencil of Vito, if they're two completely different
>companies? I lean to understand both companies just know what student horns
>should have...

Yamaha and the G. Leblanc Co. (makers of Vito) have reciprocal agreements covering some student horns.  Vito makes Yamaha's student model harmony clarinets ( Eb, Alto, and Bass), while Yamaha makes Vito's student model alto and tenor saxes.  Sometimes it's easier to contract out than to tool up for a new instrument.

In the past, stencilling has been quite common - witness the myriad of brand names that Keilwerth saxes have been marketed under:  Toneking, The New King, Conn, Marly, Crestone, Jubilee, etc.
 

Merlin Williams
http://www.netcom.ca/~merlinw
A member of the Saxring and the Duke Ellington Ring.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 22:11:45 -0500
From: RJ Carpenter
Subject: RE: Albert Alto Clarinet?

Oops; my apologies; so then Vito makes Yamahas Student saxes too!  The
YAS/YTS 23's are the same as the one (two?) of the Vito models (the number
doesn't come to mind; I'll have to look it up).  Reason # 1 why I never
would buy a Yamaha student instrument over a Vito even when people told me
that I was crazy...
Tristan

-----Original Message-----
From: merlinw
Sent: Friday, January 01, 1999 4:05 PM
Subject: RE: Albert Alto Clarinet?

On 12/31/98 17:11:09 you wrote:
>The new Vitos are great; since they're really just Yamahas with a different
>name on them...  The old Vitos were crap, and that's what many schools have.
>A new Vito is a god bet; especially when they're available for $600 (I
>think!)!!!  I would avoid curved-neck altos though; in my opinion, they have
>a much more oboe-ish  sound; which I don't find appropriate; though you
>may...

Sorry, but it's actually the other way around.  The Yamaha alto clarinets
are stencil instruments made by Vito.
 

Merlin Williams
http://www.netcom.ca/~merlinw
A member of the Saxring and the Duke Ellington Ring.
------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 22:11:47 -0500
From: RJ Carpenter
Subject: RE: Albert Alto Clarinet?

Nope; they're the same horn!!!
:)
Tristan
 

-----Original Message-----
From: CoolStu67@aol.com [mailto:CoolStu67@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, January 01, 1999 7:23 PM
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: Albert Alto Clarinet?

How can Yamaha be stencil of Vito, if they're two completely different
companies? I lean to understand both companies just know what student horns
should have...

Stuart
 -Bb Soprano Sax
 -Eb Alto Sax
 -Bb Bass Clarinet
 -EEb Contralto Clarinet

>Sorry, but it's actually the other way around.  The Yamaha alto clarinets are
stencil >instruments made by Vito.
------------------------
 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 22:11:49 -0500
From: RJ Carpenter <emerald1@megsinet.net>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: RE: bass sax video

Last I know; Steven Lederman had made it available for a reasonable fee...
You should contact him at (I think...!)
Farfl@idirect.ca
Tristan

-----Original Message-----
From: Drake Mabry [mailto:dcmabry@club-internet.fr]
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 1998 11:26 AM
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: bass sax video

I would like to order the bass sax video. Who do I contact for this?

    Drake Mabry
 

------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 22:19:30 -0500
From: Emerald1 <emerald1@megsinet.net>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: RE: Albert Alto Clarinet?

Ok; so they have likea mutual exchange going on; I meant to say Yamaha makes
Vitos saxes... sorry; this is a little confusing!!! :)  Just more proof that
Vito is a good horn and Yamaha is a rip off...
Tristan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 22:22:06 EST
From: CoolStu67@aol.com
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: Albert Alto Clarinet?

Ummm, if Yamaha makes Vito's horns, how could *Yamaha* be the rip off?

Stuart
 -Bb Soprano Sax
 -Eb Alto Sax
 -Bb Bass Clarinet
 -EEb Contralto Clarinet

>Ok; so they have likea mutual exchange going on; I meant to say Yamaha makes
>Vitos saxes... sorry; this is a little confusing!!! :)  Just more proof that
>Vito is a good horn and Yamaha is a rip off...
>Tristan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 23:31:09 -0400
From: ROBERT HOWE <arehow@vgernet.net>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: Leblanc Metal Contrabass Clarinet

Isn't that an Eb contralto, range to low Eb?  Looks nice, but be
cautious.  I bought an "overhauled" Saxophone from AgainBob on EBay and
it was unplayable, everything was pretty but nothing sealed, the action
was out of adjustment.

Robert Howe

CoolStu67@aol.com wrote:-
> eBay has a "like-new" straight contrabass up for grabs--- currently at $985

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=52798217
 

Stuart

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 23:37:50 -0400
From: ROBERT HOWE <arehow@vgernet.net>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: Albert Alto Clarinet?

Mark Beyer wrote:
> > Robert Howe wrote... .. shitty
> > instruments (bundy, vito etc)
>
> The newer Vitos are just fine. I think that the average band alto is just in
> a poor state of repair.

Doesn't that make it a shitty instrument?
Q.E.D.

Robert Howe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 22:31:53 -0500
From: Emerald1 <emerald1@megsinet.net>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: RE: Albert Alto Clarinet?

Because the Vito student horns are cheaper than the Yamaha student horn...
ex. At good prices...  YTS-23 $1500; Vito $1100
Nuff Said?
Tristan
 

-----Original Message-----
From: CoolStu67@aol.com [mailto:CoolStu67@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, January 01, 1999 10:22 PM
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: Albert Alto Clarinet?

Ummm, if Yamaha makes Vito's horns, how could *Yamaha* be the rip off?

Stuart

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 22:33:17 EST
From: CoolStu67@aol.com
To: arehow@vgernet.net, list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: Leblanc Metal Contrabass Clarinet

Nope, it looks just like the BBb contra in Leblanc's catalog...

Stuart
 -Bb Soprano Sax
 -Eb Alto Sax
 -Bb Bass Clarinet
 -EEb Contralto Clarinet

>Isn't that an Eb contralto, range to low Eb?  Looks nice, but be
>cautious.  I bought an ""overhauled" Saxophone from AgainBob on EBay and
>it was unplayable, everything was pretty but nothing sealed, the action
>was out of adjustment.
>
>Robert Howe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 23:42:29 -0400
From: ROBERT HOWE <arehow@vgernet.net>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: Soprano Tuba

Daryl Fletcher wrote:
> At Atlanta TubaChristmas on December 18th (at the CNN Center), we had a
> rare treat.  Frederick Mills (formerly with the Canadian Brass) was
> there, and he was playing a soprano tuba.  Harvey Phillips got him to
> play a little bit for us by himself during rehearsal and performance, and
> it's really a nice sounding little instrument.  I had heard of people
> hacking flugle horns, making them upright instruments, and calling them
> soprano tubas, but this one looked like it was originally made that way.
> It had top-action valves, and looked like a miniature British baritone.
> I don't know much else about it, who made it, etc., but I did find it
> really interesting.
>
I am not a brass expert--Woodwinds'R'Us--but I do see in my books, many
pictures of alto horns and alto and soprano Saxhorns that look like
teeny weeny tubas.  Could this have been one such?

Robert Howe

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:19:18 EST
From: Fmmck@aol.com
To: arehow@vgernet.net, list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re:  Re: Leblanc Metal Contrabass Clarinet

In a message dated 1/1/99 10:23:39 PM, arehow@vgernet.net wrote:

<<Isn't that an Eb contralto, range to low Eb?  Looks nice, but be
cautious.  I bought an ""overhauled" Saxophone from AgainBob on EBay and
it was unplayable, everything was pretty but nothing sealed, the action
was out of adjustment.>>

Robert-

I purchased a used LeBlanc BBb ContraBass Clarinet a few weeks ago from
someone else on the net.  Just like your Saxophone, it was advertised as being
a little better than it really was.  However, the seller was not a Clarinet
player, and couldn't have recognized things that were obvious to me when I
first saw it.  It was quite "pretty", but there was no claim that it had been
overhauled.

In my case, I had an opportunity to see it before paying.  I recognized that
it was in good mechanical condition in spite of being out of adjustment.  I
feel that the price I paid, plus a small amount for replacement of missing
corks on the five coupling levers between the top and bottom pieces, was
reasonable.

The one in the E-Bay pictures looks exactly like mine, including the case.  I
would conclude that it might be a good deal, depending on how high the
"reserve" amount is.  At $985, it would be a STEAL, but I suspect the reserve
may be more than twice that.

Fred McKenzie

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 09:16:27 +0100
From: "Lownotes" <hraven@casema.net>
To: <list@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Leblanc Metal Contrabass Clarinet

I'm an instrument repairman and I once repaired one of these instruments. If
I'm not mistaken the type is 342. Have a look at
http://www.gleblanc.com/gleblanc/welframe.html
The instrument sounded good but not above G with register key. Above that it
was terrible out of tune ( with normal fingerings like bass clarinet).
If I remember well, this instrument only has one register vent witch could
explain the bad reaction on the higher notes.
If somebody  else has playing experience on this instrument I'm curious to
hear about it. Can the instrument be played in tune above this G with
special fingerings?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 11:05:14 -0500
From: Chip Owen <cowen@whitleynet.org>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Stencil Instruments

> How can Yamaha be stencil of Vito, if they're two completely different
> companies? I lean to understand both companies just know what student horns
> should have...
> Stuart

Your question suggests that you don't understand the concept of stencil instruments.  The fact that the two
companies are different is fundamental to stenciling.

Basically, a stencil instrument is any instrument sold by the maker to another company (which may otherwise be a
competitor) to be sold under the trademark of the distributing company.  In this case, Yamaha chooses not to make
alto clarinets because they can get them from Leblanc, put the Yamaha name on them and sell them as their own.

There is nothing new or unethical about stenciling.  It is a practice that has gone on for centuries.  It might be
difficult to find makers that have absolutely never sold instruments to stencilers.  There are probably a few
companies that have more instruments in existence under stencil labels than their own trademark.

--
Chip Owen
Columbia City, IN
cowen@whitleynet.org

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 16:52:58 EST
From: Heliconman@aol.com
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Yamaha/Vito (was:Albert Alto Clarinet?)

In a message dated 1/1/99 7:24:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
list@contrabass.com writes:

>  How can Yamaha be stencil of Vito, if they're two completely different
>  companies? I lean to understand both companies just know what student horns
>  should have...
>  >Sorry, but it's actually the other way around.  The Yamaha alto clarinets are
>  stencil >instruments made by Vito.

This seems much more likely. Yamaha has a great knack for studying well-made
products and learning how to produce the same or better quality. If they were
to colaborate with Vito, they could "apprentise" with the company by
overseeing the production of their "Yamaha" stencil horns, then later produce
their own line of horns at equal or better quality and perhaps even buy out
the competition. Yamaha is an extremely competitive company. I personally
believe that this is the reason U.M.I. was formed of all those formerly great
American manufacturers...to be able to compete with Yamaha! Unfortunately,
U.M.I.'s quality seems to have dropped.
U.M.I. corporate types take note! I won't buy U.M.I. horns! I look for the
older Kings & Conns, etc!! Much, MUCH better made instruments! By the way, I
borrowed my buddy's Yamaha bass trombone a while back and now I''m jonesing
for one of my own!! It's great when you find a horn that allows pedal tones to
ACCIDENTALLY slip out! I wasn't impressed by early Yamaha horns, but
now....WOW! World class!
Happy New Year!!
Heliconman@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 17:27:03 EST
From: LeliaLoban@aol.com
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: G. Peletti bass horn

An alert for collectors of antique tubas:  Today I saw a 19th century 3-valve
G. Peletti (of Milano) bass horn for sale, for $250.  It's at the Antique
Village, 10203 Chamberlayne Rd., Mechanicsville, VA 23116.  Phone: (804)
746-8914.  This is a small antiques mall with several dealers.  The manager's
name is Joe Lipscombe.  Find the shop on U. S. Rt. 301, 4 miles north of
I-295, just outside of Richmond, Virginia.  The bass horn is lying on the
floor in the hallway at the back, so you can't miss it.  In fact, you almost
can't help tripping over it.

This bass horn is bare brass, a large, over-shoulder model.  It needs work.
Part of the valve assembly is detached from the horn (lying on the floor with
it) and there is a small (less than 1/2") rip in the brass at what appears to
be one of the attachment points.  The mouth pipe appears to be copper, or
brass with copper patina.  There are some dents.

Lying with it on the floor with the horn is a Xerox from the Langwell Index
that identifies  G. Peletti of Milan as a member of a large instrument-making
family.  He was born in 1837 and died in 1905.  He owned his own instrument-
making business in Milan from 1860-1865, when he merged his  shop with that of
his parrents.  Very few of his instruments are known, evidently, so it's safe
to say that this is a rare horn.  Whether it's any good or not, I have no
idea.  I don't play the tuba and know next to nothing about tubas, but the
fact that the dealer knew enough to consult Langwell's indicates that he or
she might be able to provide more information.  I don't know whether there's a
case available or whether the price is negotiable (although I think probably
so, since a previous price has been scratched out on the tag).  The dealer who
owns the horn wasn't there today.

Good hunting!
Lelia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In The Glory of the Hummingbird, 1974, Peter deVries calls the tuba, "The
very lower bowel of music."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 17:29:50 EST
From: CoolStu67@aol.com
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: G. Peletti bass horn

Could this be the maker of my Otello-Milano clarinet?

Stuart
 -Bb Soprano Sax
 -Eb Alto Sax
 -Bb Bass Clarinet
 -EEb Contralto Clarinet

>Lying with it on the floor with the horn is a Xerox from the Langwell Index
>that identifies  G. Peletti of Milan as a member of a large instrument-making
>family.  He was born in 1837 and died in 1905.  He owned his own instrument-
>making business in Milan from 1860-1865, when he merged his  shop with that of
>his parrents.  Very few of his instruments are known, evidently, so it's safe
>to say that this is a rare horn.  Whether it's any good or not, I have no
>idea.  I don't play the tuba and know next to nothing about tubas, but the
>fact that the dealer knew enough to consult Langwell's indicates that he or
>she might be able to provide more information.  I don't know whether there's a
>case available or whether the price is negotiable (although I think probably
>so, since a previous price has been scratched out on the tag).  The dealer who
>owns the horn wasn't there today.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 16:12:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Jean Adler <jean@espressocom.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: happy news

Dear Low Wind Afficianados,
Several months back I asked for assistance choosing a mouthpiece because I
was expecting a baby and had less breath control.  I am happy to report
my son arrived on December 27th weighing in at a whopping 8 pounds 15
ounces.  I tell you this child is severely cutting
into my playing time.  He was a c-section which means no bass clarinet
playing for 6 weeks.  Looks like my Symphony replacement not only gets to
do the Holiday Concert but willl also play the Mid-Winter Concert.
While I am here I found a box of contrabass clarinet reeds that a couple
of you were interested in purchasing.  Let me know if you are stil
interested.

I wish all of you the happiness in 1999 that I have already felt thanks to
my adorable baby.

Jean Adler

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 14:52:45 -0800
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: G. Peletti bass horn

At 05:29 PM 1/2/1999 EST, you wrote:
>----------
>Could this be the maker of my Otello-Milano clarinet?
>
>Stuart

Probably not: "Milano" is simply Italian for Milan, the city.  There have
been many instrument makers in Milan over the decades, just as Paris is
home to many in France, and, for some reason, Elkhart in the US.  Langwells
doesn't list any maker under the mark "Otello": the only "O" maker listed
under Milano is Orsi.  Are there any other marks on the horn?

Grant
 

Grant Green
gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
Just filling in on sarrusophone.......

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 14:55:57 -0800
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: happy news

At 04:12 PM 1/2/1999 -0600, you wrote:
>Dear Low Wind Afficianados,
>Several months back I asked for assistance choosing a mouthpiece because I
>was expecting a baby and had less breath control.  I am happy to report
>my son arrived on December 27th weighing in at a whopping 8 pounds 15

...and he didn't come with a floor peg... ;-)

Congratulations!

Grant
 

Grant Green
gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
Just filling in on sarrusophone.......

------------------------------

End of list V1 #72
******************

 
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