Contrabass Digest
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1998-12-21

 
list                           Mon, 21 Dec 1998           Volume 1 : Number 60

In this issue:
 


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Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:02:43 CST
From: "Gregg Bailey" <greggbailey@hotmail.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Old Contrabass Clarinet???

 Once I found an instrument book at the library and copied a page of
pictures out of it.  One of the pictures is of a very neat looking
contrabass clarinet.  The caption reads:

"Contrabass clarinet.  Fontaine Besson, Paris, after 1889.  London,
Philip Bate Collection."
 
 I want more information on it, because it looks so practical and fun to
play; it looks like it'd sound incredible.  The design of it is so neat
that I don't understand why it stopped being made that way.
 The basic shape is like a bass clarinet, only with some folds in the
tube.  It shouldn't be any taller than a bass clarinet.  All straight
sections are wood; all curved sections are metal.  The mouthpiece is
almost horizontal.  It fits into the neck which looks like a bass
clarinet neck, only the angle of the upturn is closer to 90 degrees.
The body starts out with a section that goes down about 1/2 the total
height of the instrument.  The tube then comes back up a little farther
up than the neck, then goes all the way down, with a bell that looks a
little bit bigger than a bass clarinet bell.
 Does ANYBODY have any more info on this????
 This page also has a picture of an "Alto fagotto."  I don't know if
this would be a whole octave above the bassoon or what.?  There is a
Tarogato that looks like an oboe, or maybe a wooden soprano sax.  What
exactly IS a tarogato?  There also is a picture of a "Kontrabassophon".
It looks like a really big bassoon.  Does anyone have any more info on
what a Kontrabassophon is???
 

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Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 21:15:55 CST
From: "Gregg Bailey" <greggbailey@hotmail.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: low reed PVC

The other day I discovered a 20'-long piece of PVC pipe in the loading
dock off of the bandhall.  I got the mouthpiece to the BBb contrabass
clarinet, slipped it over one end of the PVC (snug fit!), and played THE
note!!!!  What a great sound to my ears!  It was an A in the 64' octave,
or about 13-14 Hz!  The reverb of the loading dock made it incredible.
What a neat feeling for the reed to be vibrating in my mouth that slow!
It sounded just like a Bombard on the organ to me.
 It made me want to hook 64' of PVC together in 2' segments by way of
U-joints, which would only end up as a 2'*2' square!  However, I can't
find plain U-joints for narrow PVC anywhere.  Also, my dad says he won't
let me "Waste the money."  10' pieces of PVC are only $1 to $2 around
here!  I wonder how much 32 U-joints would cost if I found any.
 -Gregg

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Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 22:30:11 EST
From: CoolStu67@aol.com
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: low reed PVC

Just curious... how do you get 64' A from a 20 foot long PVC piece? By the
way, how in God's name did you measure this pitch? Certainly no tuner could
detect this (my tuner doesn't even detect my soprano sax altissimo). Perfect
pitch probably wouldn't help either, because two people at my high school have
it and can't tell what the lowest notes on the piano are (they might have
extreme relative, though).

I guess this is the perfect chance to ask my question. Playing the bass part
on my Eb contra, I find several low Ds all over the place. Unfortunately, my
school can't (well, won't--- we have a 30 grand budget but still no curved
contras!!!...) buy a Eb contra with low D, so I'm forced to play it up an
octave. Having experience with building a low C extension for my bass, I'm
thinking about a low D extension on the contra. A few questions I need
answered first... how much pipe will I need? I plan on still attaching the
bell, so low Eb will still play, and when I want low D I will use my foot to
close the pad on the bell. Could this actually work? Has anybody done this
before? Thanks to anybody that responds.

Stuart
 -Bb Soprano Sax
 -Eb Alto Sax
 -Bb Bass Clarinet
 -EEb Contralto Clarinet

>The other day I discovered a 20'-long piece of PVC pipe in the loading
>dock off of the bandhall.  I got the mouthpiece to the BBb contrabass
>clarinet, slipped it over one end of the PVC (snug fit!), and played THE
>note!!!!  What a great sound to my ears!  It was an A in the 64' octave,
>or about 13-14 Hz!  The reverb of the loading dock made it incredible.
>What a neat feeling for the reed to be vibrating in my mouth that slow!
>It sounded just like a Bombard on the organ to me.
> It made me want to hook 64' of PVC together in 2' segments by way of
>U-joints, which would only end up as a 2'*2' square!  However, I can't
>find plain U-joints for narrow PVC anywhere.  Also, my dad says he won't
>let me "Waste the money."  10' pieces of PVC are only $1 to $2 around
>here!  I wonder how much 32 U-joints would cost if I found any.
> -Gregg

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:20:09 -0400
From: Jim Katz <JimKatz@JohnAbbott.qc.ca>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: low reed PVC

Gregg, you sound like an official contrabass nutcase. Tell your Dad that he
is frustrating the beginning of a career that could result in his son
becoming one of the great innovators, players, collectors, and inventors of
little-known and less-used instruments, It's weird, but somebody's gotta do
it. What would happen if you took that cube and put some finger-holes in it
in more or less comfy places? You could have the world's first
ultracontratesseractserpentasoon.
Good luck finding the parts. I bet you could modify copper elbows and
things....

>The other day I discovered a 20'-long piece of PVC pipe in the loading
>dock off of the bandhall.  I got the mouthpiece to the BBb contrabass
>clarinet, slipped it over one end of the PVC (snug fit!), and played THE
>note!!!!  What a great sound to my ears!  It was an A in the 64' octave,
>or about 13-14 Hz!  The reverb of the loading dock made it incredible.
>What a neat feeling for the reed to be vibrating in my mouth that slow!
>It sounded just like a Bombard on the organ to me.
> It made me want to hook 64' of PVC together in 2' segments by way of
>U-joints, which would only end up as a 2'*2' square!  However, I can't
>find plain U-joints for narrow PVC anywhere.  Also, my dad says he won't
>let me "Waste the money."  10' pieces of PVC are only $1 to $2 around
>here!  I wonder how much 32 U-joints would cost if I found any.
> -Gregg

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 23:13:47 -0500
From: mgrogg@juno.com
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: low reed PVC

>What a neat feeling for the reed to be vibrating in my mouth that
>slow!   It sounded just like a Bombard on the organ to me.
> It made me want to hook 64' of PVC together in 2' segments by
>way of U-joints, which would only end up as a 2'*2' square!  However, I can't
>find plain U-joints for narrow PVC anywhere.  Also, my dad says he
>won't  let me "Waste the money."  10' pieces of PVC are only $1 to $2 around
>here!  I wonder how much 32 U-joints would cost if I found any.
> -Gregg

If you are reasonably handy and have access to an industrial strength hot
air gun, like for stripping paint or doing large shrink wrap or thawing
pipes, with a little care you can heat up the pvc to where it is soft and
bend it in a moderate radius.  Make a lot of bends and use the straight
connectors if you can't get u joints.

In my own home made low instrument quest, I got 32 feet of soft vinyl
tubing and attached one end to the largest funnel I could find, and
insert my tuba mouthpiece in the other.  I agree the feel of a really low
note is really neat.  The tubing is nice, because I can either coil it up
and secure the coil with duct tape and play it Helicon style, or stretch
it out my bedroom window, secure the funnel to my fence and annoy the
neighbors pit bulls in the middle of the night.

MG

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:41:17 CST
From: "Gregg Bailey" <greggbailey@hotmail.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Low PVC

>From: CoolStu67@aol.com
>Just curious... how do you get 64' A from a 20 foot long PVC piece?

 Since the PVC is cylindrical, I get a 40'-tone, which is in the 64'
octave.  It's not in the 32' octave, since 40'>32'.

>By the
>way, how in God's name did you measure this pitch?
 
 When I blow air into one end without the mouthpiece, I hear the 20'
tone, and I could tell it was an A, the lowest A on the piano.  BTW, the
lowest strings on a piano have metallic overtones that make the pitch
hard to distinguish.  Also, I could actually tell that my reed tone WAS
an A, even though it was so low!  And, mathematically, 20' would work
out to be around an A, or maybe a hair flat of an A.  42 2/3' would be
close to a G, I know that for sure.
 -Gregg
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:01:05 -0500
From: Emerald1 <emerald1@megsinet.net>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: RE: low reed PVC

Just for interest; I am working on (and hope to finish soon!) a genuine;
Albert-system Octo-Contrabasss Clarinet made from PVC pipe (the body only)
and keyed with brass keys (soldering done by me; so broken keys WILL be a
problem!):) ; it's range is down to low C; and should play semi-in tune!
More details on the project as it progresses...
8Va Basso,
Tristan Carpenter
 

------------------------------

From: heliconman@aol.com
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#49502434: Besson Eb Tuba

I saw this item for sale at eBay, the world's largest personal trading community, and thought that you might be interested.

Title of item: Besson Eb Tuba
Seller: russ1bcbinc@webtv.net
Starts: 12/15/98 01:52:09 PST
Ends: 12/22/98 01:52:09 PST
Price: Currently $341.00
To bid the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=49502434
 

Item Description:

Buyer pays S/H and insurance.
Payment by money order or cashier's check.

Email:
Phone:  (508)476-3590 (Russ)

Happy Holidays!

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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:21:34 EST
From: JolivetDVM@aol.com
To: cordish@internet-zahav.net, list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re:  Sarrusophones

 I'm sure that you'll get many responses, but here's my 2 cents worth...
They are not hard to play, if you are familiar with a doublereed embouchure.
The fingering system is extremely similar to the saxophone and is quite easy
to pick up if you don't play sax.  The top register is all over-blown
harmonics, but with practice they aren't hard to do. I started as a sax
player, before finally becoming a bassoonist/contrabassoonist so the
sarrusophone is easy for me to play.  The fingering is a snap compared to the
bassoon, and the embouchure is something I do every day anyway.
 Orsi will still make sarrusophones to order, but I've never heard anything
good about them.  A Dutch company was reputedly going to start manufacturing
them, but as far as I know, that never panned out.
 As to why the sarrusophone never caught on, well, that could fill a book or
at least a good-sized dissertation.  Part of the problem was that sax players
didn't know the embouchure and bassoonists didn't know the fingering.  Adolph
Sax's lawsuit against Gautrot probably put a stigma on the instrument at the
very beginning, and it is well -known  that some famous music critics were
very much against the sarrusophone because of allegiance to Sax (for example
Pontecoulant). Because of it's newness, few people wrote music for it, the
majority of that being French.  It's actual intended use was in the military
band and even there it never achieved any lasting success.  Only the
contrabass in Eb survived for many years.   I could go on and on, but these
are some reasons.  I'm currently translating some early French treatises on
the sarrusophone and will eventually publish them in the IDRS journal.  There
are some scholarly sources available as well which have good info.  Look up in
the IDRS index.
 As far as pictures, there were a couple article in Woodwind Magazine by
Richard Boerlin which showed most of the sizes together.  Also, the article by
Roger Leruste in the French  "Encyclopedie de la Musique et Dictionnaire du
Conservatoire" has diagrams of all the family.  I can't recall the editor, but
a large university library should own the set.
 As you can tell, I'm a huge fan of the sarrusophone and actually own a Bb
bass by Triebert and a Eb contrabass by Conn.  I am hoping to do a
lecture/recital at the IDRS convention in 1999.
 Please feel free to contact me if I can be of further assistance.
Michel Jolivet, sarrusophonist!!
P.S. There is a collector in Germany who owns all 9 sizes of sarrusophone.
I've written to him, but never heard back.  To my knowledge, this is the only
complete collection in the world.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:41:31 -0800
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: Old Contrabass Clarinet???

> This page also has a picture of an "Alto fagotto."  I don't know if
>this would be a whole octave above the bassoon or what.?  There is a

Possibly.  The bassoon (faggoto in Italian) descended from the
curtal/dulcian, which was used in a variety of sizes, from soprano to
sub-bass.  The bass size (aka choirist faggot) was the most common size,
and became the bassoon.  The tenor size was probably the second most
common.  Alto would be an octave above the bass size, and soprano a 4th
above that.

>Tarogato that looks like an oboe, or maybe a wooden soprano sax.  What
>exactly IS a tarogato?

The tarogato is much like a wooden soprano sax.  The original tarogato was
a Hungarian shawm, a double reed folk instrument.  At some point (1800's?)
Stowasser redesigned the instrument with a single-reed mouthpiece.  I
believe its considered the Hungarian national instrument now.

Grant
 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green            gdgreen@contrabass.com
                    http://www.contrabass.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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End of list V1 #60
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