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2005-05-20

From: "Sung Hwang Wang"
Subject: [CB] Octo
Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 13:19:03 -0700

Indeed, why don’t we make a recording of the octocontras?

Isn’t there are still an octocontra alto and an octocontrabass at Leblanc office, why don’t we ask them to make a recording of it?  I am certain there players up to the task.

As to manufacturing it again, not sure if the owning company Conn-Selmer will welcome the idea.  How many can they expect to sell?  Probably not a good investment return for them.  Look how long it has been since Leblanc last upgraded its bass and contrabass clarinets.  Will they do it purely for artistic achievement, well, they already proved that they could do it with the prototypes.

But if enough interests gather together and hit the Pascuzzi family with the request, it might just happen for a limited run…

As to why Eppelsheim won’t consider making the octo, well he is a great technician, I am sure he can make it work if he really wants to.  Perhaps he just isn’t all that interested in reliving Leblanc’s glory?  I would love to see his unique design though.  Tubax and Bassax are absolutely stunning.

Willy

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Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 09:34:38 +0200
From: Maxime HOYOUX
Subject: Re: [CB] Octo

I have sent a message to Mr EPPELSHEIM about the construction of the octocontralto or octocontrabass clarinet :
 
 
It's possible four you to make an octocontrabass clarinet OR octocontralto clarinet (like those were made by LEBLANC)?Have you some demand about it ?
 
Demand yes- acoustical possibilities no: I made a lot of experements with plastic tubes in different diameters and with different mouthpieces, the result is always the same: It takes a lot of air pressure and control to make the air vibrate at all, it screeches all the time and you cannot play the second partial, the 12th.
So it would never be a workable musical instrument.

END OF MESSAGE
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From: "Sung Hwang Wang"
Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 13:36:27 -0700
Subject: [CB] 

Hi Grant, could you change my profile so I could receive every email as it happens? 
Thanks.  Willy


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From: Tim Tikker
Subject: Re: [CB] octobass clarinet photo
Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:12:05 -0400

On Thu, 19 May 2005 15:30:13 -0700 (List Server) wrote:

> *http://www.angelfire.com/music3/cmusicprod/leblanc.html

Thanks for this wonderful link!  I either haven't seen this photo before, or it's been so long since I've seen it I forgot it!  But it really is a wonderful document of these mysterious octobasses.

- Tim Tikker
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From: Fred
Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 13:19:01 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Octo


In a message dated 5/20/05 3:37:33 AM, mhoyoux@gmail.com writes:


> I have sent a message to Mr EPPELSHEIM about the construction of the
> octocontralto or octocontrabass clarinet :
>  It's possible four you to make an octocontrabass clarinet OR octocontralto
> clarinet (like those were made by LEBLANC)?Have you some demand about it ?
>
>  Demand yes- acoustical possibilities no: I made a lot of experements with
> plastic tubes in different diameters and with different mouthpieces, the
> result is always the same: It takes a lot of air pressure and control to make the
> air vibrate at all,
>  it screeches all the time and you cannot play the second partial, the 12th.
>  So it would never be a workable musical instrument.
>
Maxime-

It is clear from Mr. Eppelsheim's words that he does not want to waste his time trying to make such an instrument.   The same problems would exist on the Soprano, Alto, Bass and Contra clarinets, and we know they are quite playable.

One real problem would be the mouthpiece design.   The size of a Contra mouthpiece is close to the limit of what most of us can play.   It seems to me that  the player doesn't make the air vibrate as much as he makes the REED vibrate, which modulates the air flow.   Consider the problem of using a Soprano mouthpiece on a Contra, and getting the reed to vibrate at such a low pitch.   That may be comparable to using a Contra mouthpiece on an Octo, and it might screech a little bit.

Fred

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Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:30:09 -0700
From: Craig
Subject: Re: [CB] Octo

With regard to octocontra recordings, are there any soundtrack recordings from the tv series, "Mission Impossible"? Or are we looking for an example of the sound of the Leblanc Octos? Does anyone know the current whereabouts of the "MI" octo?

With regard to Mr. Eppelsheim's curious response, it is odd that Leblanc would devote as much effort as went into the design and manufacture of their prototype octos if it could be known at the experiment stage that they would not work... Perhaps his interpretation of the 'proper' sound of the octo led him to use a large bore / large mouthpiece (think Linton contra). Of course this would require lots of air and be difficult to control. Leblanc's octos seem to have a length to diameter ratio higher than that of their contras -- it is possible that they use a contra mouthpiece. This would facilitate production of the 12th, among other issues.

If Mr. Eppelsheim was having difficulty trying to get the 12th on a tube length representing the lowest note of interest, that is to be expected. Many extended clarinets have problems obtaining the 12th of their lowest note. How many low Eb basses produce a clean Bb from the low Eb fingering?

I'm not sure how much weight to give the 12th objection in any event. How high does an octo need to go? Isn't that why we have contras? ;-)  To look at it another way, isn't expecting an upper register from an octo kind of like putting a C extension on an Eb sopranino? (Never mind that I think every clarinet should have a C extension and at least five keys for the right little finger.) If the octocontras topped out at throat Eb, that would still complete the bottom octave+ and provide a nice basement (ok, sub-basement) to whatever ensemble they are in.

Mr. Eppelsheim's experiments should be easy to reproduce -- I wonder what the builder of the radiator-like pvc 'contra' has to say on this subject. Caveat to experimenters: the tube really should be continuous, since the goal at this proof-of-concept stage is an ideal model, and any step or notch in the bore could introduce problems not seen in a finished instrument.

Down with frequency!

Craig
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Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 15:46:08 -0500
From: "Gregg Bailey"
Subject: Re: [CB] octobass clarinet photo

But this is the same picture as the 3rd picture from the top on Terje Lerstad's site...

-Gregg

> > *http://www.angelfire.com/music3/cmusicprod/leblanc.html


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Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 15:58:03 -0500
From: "Gregg Bailey"
Subject: [CB] My PVC octo

Craig et al,

> Mr. Eppelsheim's experiments should be easy to reproduce -- I wonder
> what the builder of the radiator-like pvc 'contra' has to say on this subject.

I'm so glad you asked!  I find that when I produce a tone using just the first four 4' segments of my PVC experiment, which yields roughly the frequency of the bottom (sounding) C or maybe B-natural of the octocontrabass, the tone is quite satisfying and very projecting (frequency about 15 or 16 Hz).  However, since I use a BBb contra mouthpiece, I have to press my tongue against the reed with a little bit of pressure in order to get this tone.  Otherwise, it just squeaks and shrieks as Mr. Eppelsheim said.  I wish very much that I could demonstrate this to all of you in-person.

Oh how I wish I could get to a mouthpiece so that I could play my experiment once again and maybe even post a sound clip...

-Gregg


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Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 16:04:33 -0500
From: "Gregg Bailey"
Subject: [CB] recreating the octo sound using software

My father is in the video/audio business, and he has software which can pitch a recording down at least one octave without changing the speed of the music/speech.  He had an older version of this software a few years ago, and he felt that the harmonics would get altered too much when changing the pitch.  However, he seems to think that the latest software yields a better result when pitching a recording. 

Has anyone tried recording a BBb contra, patching the recording into such software, and pitching it down an octave to yield the approximate sound of an octocontra?  Actually, I tried this on his older version of the software a few years ago, and I thought the result was quite interesting!  Unfortunately, I don't think I recorded the result onto any kind of medium.  Perhaps I should do this again with his new software.  I would need to get access to one of the local high school's BBb contras, however.

Does anyone have interest in this?

-Gregg


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Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 16:07:34 -0500
From: "Gregg Bailey"
Subject: [CB] contacting Mr. Pascucci about octo?

Has anyone tried writing a letter or getting in touch somehow with Leon Pascucci--who I understand is the current President of the Leblanc Company--about the fact that quite a number of us are interested in the recreation of octocontras?  If so, was there any response???

-Gregg

***End of Contrabass Digest***

 
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