From: "Sung Hwang Wang"
Subject: [CB] Octo
Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 13:19:03 -0700
Indeed, why don’t we make a recording of the octocontras?
Isn’t there are still an octocontra alto and an octocontrabass
at Leblanc office, why don’t we ask them to make a recording of
it? I am certain there players up to the task.
As to manufacturing it again, not sure if the owning company
Conn-Selmer will welcome the idea. How many can they expect to
sell? Probably not a good investment return for them. Look
how long it has been since Leblanc last upgraded its bass and
contrabass clarinets. Will they do it purely for artistic
achievement, well, they already proved that they could do it with the
prototypes.
But if enough interests gather together and hit the Pascuzzi
family with the request, it might just happen for a limited run…
As to why Eppelsheim won’t consider making the octo, well he is
a great technician, I am sure he can make it work if he really wants
to. Perhaps he just isn’t all that interested in reliving
Leblanc’s glory? I would love to see his unique design
though. Tubax and Bassax are absolutely stunning.
Willy
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 09:34:38 +0200
From: Maxime HOYOUX
Subject: Re: [CB] Octo
I have sent a message to Mr EPPELSHEIM about the construction of
the octocontralto or octocontrabass clarinet :
It's possible four you to make an octocontrabass clarinet OR
octocontralto clarinet (like those were made by LEBLANC)?Have you some
demand about it ?
Demand yes- acoustical possibilities no: I made a lot of experements
with plastic tubes in different diameters and with different
mouthpieces, the result is always the same: It takes a lot of air
pressure and control to make the air vibrate at all, it screeches all
the time and you cannot play the second partial, the 12th.
So it would never be a workable musical instrument.
END OF MESSAGE
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Sung Hwang Wang"
Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 13:36:27 -0700
Subject: [CB]
Hi Grant, could you change my profile so I could receive every
email as it happens?
Thanks. Willy
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Tim Tikker
Subject: Re: [CB] octobass clarinet photo
Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:12:05 -0400
On Thu, 19 May 2005 15:30:13 -0700 (List Server) wrote:
Thanks for this wonderful link! I either haven't seen this
photo before, or it's been so long since I've seen it I forgot
it! But it really is a wonderful document of these mysterious
octobasses.
- Tim Tikker
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Fred
Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 13:19:01 EDT
Subject: Re: [CB] Octo
In a message dated 5/20/05 3:37:33 AM, mhoyoux@gmail.com writes:
> I have sent a message to Mr EPPELSHEIM about the
construction of the
> octocontralto or octocontrabass clarinet :
> It's possible four you to make an octocontrabass
clarinet OR octocontralto
> clarinet (like those were made by LEBLANC)?Have you some
demand about it ?
>
> Demand yes- acoustical possibilities no: I made a lot
of experements with
> plastic tubes in different diameters and with different
mouthpieces, the
> result is always the same: It takes a lot of air pressure
and control to make the
> air vibrate at all,
> it screeches all the time and you cannot play the
second partial, the 12th.
> So it would never be a workable musical instrument.
>
Maxime-
It is clear from Mr. Eppelsheim's words that he does not want to
waste his time trying to make such an instrument. The same
problems would exist on the Soprano, Alto, Bass and Contra clarinets,
and we know they are quite playable.
One real problem would be the mouthpiece design. The
size of a Contra mouthpiece is close to the limit of what most of us
can play. It seems to me that the player doesn't make
the air vibrate as much as he makes the REED vibrate, which modulates
the air flow. Consider the problem of using a Soprano
mouthpiece on a Contra, and getting the reed to vibrate at such a low
pitch. That may be comparable to using a Contra mouthpiece
on an Octo, and it might screech a little bit.
Fred
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20
May 2005 12:30:09 -0700
From: Craig
Subject: Re:
[CB] Octo
With regard to
octocontra recordings, are there any soundtrack recordings from the tv
series, "Mission Impossible"? Or are we looking for an example of the
sound of the Leblanc Octos? Does anyone know the current whereabouts of
the "MI" octo?
With regard to
Mr. Eppelsheim's curious response, it is odd that Leblanc would devote
as much effort as went into the design and manufacture of their
prototype octos if it could be known at the experiment stage that they
would not work... Perhaps his interpretation of the 'proper' sound of
the octo led him to use a large bore / large mouthpiece (think Linton
contra). Of course this would require lots of air and be difficult to
control. Leblanc's octos seem to have a length to diameter ratio higher
than that of their contras -- it is possible that they use a contra
mouthpiece. This would facilitate production of the 12th, among other
issues.
If Mr.
Eppelsheim was having difficulty trying to get the 12th on a tube
length representing the lowest note of interest, that is to be
expected. Many extended clarinets have problems obtaining the 12th of
their lowest note. How many low Eb basses produce a clean Bb from the
low Eb fingering?
I'm not sure
how much weight to give the 12th objection in any event. How high does
an octo need to go? Isn't that why we have contras? ;-) To look
at it another way, isn't expecting an upper register from an octo kind
of like putting a C extension on an Eb sopranino? (Never mind that I
think every clarinet should have a C extension and at least five keys
for the right little finger.) If the octocontras topped out at throat
Eb, that would still complete the bottom octave+ and provide a nice
basement (ok, sub-basement) to whatever ensemble they are in.
Mr.
Eppelsheim's experiments should be easy to reproduce -- I wonder what
the builder of the radiator-like pvc 'contra' has to say on this
subject. Caveat to experimenters: the tube really should be continuous,
since the goal at this proof-of-concept stage is an ideal model, and
any step or notch in the bore could introduce problems not seen in a
finished instrument.
Down with
frequency!
Craig
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20
May 2005 15:46:08 -0500
From: "Gregg
Bailey"
Subject: Re:
[CB] octobass clarinet photo
But this is
the same picture as the 3rd picture from the top on Terje Lerstad's
site...
-Gregg
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20
May 2005 15:58:03 -0500
From: "Gregg
Bailey"
Subject: [CB]
My PVC octo
Craig et al,
> Mr.
Eppelsheim's experiments should be easy to reproduce -- I wonder
> what the
builder of the radiator-like pvc 'contra' has to say on this subject.
I'm so glad
you asked! I find that when I produce a tone using just the first four 4' segments of
my PVC experiment, which yields roughly the frequency of the bottom
(sounding) C or maybe B-natural of the octocontrabass, the tone is
quite satisfying and very projecting (frequency about 15 or 16
Hz). However, since I use a BBb contra mouthpiece, I have to
press my tongue against the reed with a little bit of pressure in order
to get this tone. Otherwise, it just squeaks and shrieks as Mr.
Eppelsheim said. I wish very much that I could demonstrate this
to all of you in-person.
Oh how I wish
I could get to a mouthpiece so that I could play my experiment once again and
maybe even post a sound clip...
-Gregg
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20
May 2005 16:04:33 -0500
From: "Gregg
Bailey"
Subject: [CB]
recreating the octo sound using software
My father is
in the video/audio business, and he has software which can pitch a
recording down at least one octave without changing the speed of the
music/speech. He had an older version of this software a few
years ago, and he felt that the harmonics would get altered too much
when changing the pitch. However, he seems to think that the
latest software yields a better result when pitching a recording.
Has anyone
tried recording a BBb contra, patching the recording into such
software, and pitching it down an octave to yield the approximate sound
of an octocontra? Actually, I tried this on his older version of
the software a few years ago, and I thought the result was quite
interesting! Unfortunately, I don't think I recorded the result
onto any kind of medium. Perhaps I should do this again with his
new software. I would need to get access to one of the local high
school's BBb contras, however.
Does anyone
have interest in this?
-Gregg
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20
May 2005 16:07:34 -0500
From: "Gregg
Bailey"
Subject: [CB]
contacting Mr. Pascucci about octo?
Has anyone
tried writing a letter or getting in touch somehow with Leon
Pascucci--who I understand is the current President of the Leblanc
Company--about the fact that quite a number of us are interested in the
recreation of octocontras? If so, was there any response???
-Gregg
***End of Contrabass Digest***