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Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 17:38:46 -0800
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] French music store?
>but my instrument sat in a customs warehouse in New York for a month until
>my dealer initiated a trace procedure.I encountered a similar problem when having an ophicleide shipped
here from Paris: it sat in customs for quite a while waiting for
*FDA* clearance. They thought it was medical equipment...>(2) Now for the surprise: if you consider shipping costs, possible duties
>(I may have been lucky, based on reports from others), risks, possible
>treatment of your clarinet by Selmer dealers in the US as a gray market item
>(which it will be), you may come to see the $11,400 as the beginning of a
>larger and potentially truly bank busting series of expenditures. GrantI'm assuming that one would ship it back to France for any warranty
work required. After that, I don't think my local repairman care
where it came from.>references the WW and BW frequently - their price for the Selmer in question
>is around $14,500 (yes, I checked, though I really love my Leblanc paperclip
>and will keep it). However, dedicated (and sometime professional) internet
>troller that I am, I know that much better prices can be found -- in the
>USA. (I definitely would not assume WW and BW has the best price on
>ANYTHING, and as for service...you should contact me before you orderI find that they make a handy reference point, because their prices
are either on the web or available pretty promptly by email, and they
carry a wide variety of horns. No real problems with shipping,
although as you've noted, sometimes you can end up waiting for quite
a long time. The only times I've ordered an instrument in a hurry
were a piccolo for my daughter (Yamaha, they had it in stock), and my
Bb contra. They didn't have the contra in stock, but I arranged with
Leblanc in WI to have one shipped directly from their stock (WW&BW
was involved only because Leblanc wouldn't sell directly to me, the
consumer): from order to receipt was a matter of days (I think less
than a week). Certainly not a *representative* transaction ;-)>me. And they had my credit card number for goodness sakes!). King, for
>example, quotes a price of about $12,500 for the Selmer - making it a
>virtual wash with our French dealer when expenses are accounted for, and a
>resounding defeat for WW and BW. Still, take with a massive block of salt
>if they put you on a waitlist.Is the King Music price current? I haven't noticed any change in the
band instrument page (the only one I look at) for several years, and
sort of assumed that the price may be obsolete. The page says
"$12,187.50, including shipping" for the Bb contra, and $7,304.00,
including shipping, for the Eb contra. Wish they listed more than
just the Selmer tenor sax...Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 17:43:49 -0800
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] Leblanc Paperclip
>Back to the dear old Leblanc paperclip. It's got two sling rings. The lower
>one makes sense, after a fashion. That is, if you sit down with the thing
>between the knees, connecting a sling at least helps to prevent disasters if
>you accidentally let go to pick up a pencil.The newer models (at least mine, a couple of years old) have only the
upper ring. Absolutely no use if you're standing, unless you can get
the strap to stand straight out from your neck, horizontally. My
first contra had both rings, and could be played using a 2-hook bass
clarinet strap: as far as I can tell, nobody still makes a 2-hook
bass clarinet strap... It was still awkward, and a great weight on
the neck, so I mainly rested the bottom bow of the horn on my chair
while playing.>I can't make sense of the upper one. I've tried a two-ended strap (I''ve no
>idea where it came from; it's not a dog lead), but it really doesn't seem
>much use. The instrument is quite unstable if I stand up, so I can't imagine
>marching, for example.Can't imagine marching with one. Haven't tried standing with the
horn at an angle. If I have to stand up to play, I put the horn on a
Leblanc stand made specifically for the paperclip instruments.Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 17:51:47 -0800
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] French music duty?
>(2) Now for the surprise: if you consider shipping costs, possible duties
>(I may have been lucky, based on reports from others), risks, possible
>treatment of your clarinet by Selmer dealers in the US as a gray market item
>(which it will be), you may come to see the $11,400 as the beginning of aJust out of curiosity, I looked it up at the US Customs website. Woodwind
instruments other than bagpipes, other than instruments with
electronic sound generation or amplification, are apparently category
92059040, and incur a duty of 4.9% when imported from a "normal"
non-NAFTA country. For a $11,400 contra, that works out to be
$558.60. Brass instruments (category 92051000), for some reason,
incur a duty of 2.9%...Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Dmabry"
Subject: [CB] Musique et Art
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 06:09:54 +0100With reference to Musique et Art. They are one of several musical
instrument shops on the rue de Rome near Gare St. Lazare. They seem
reputable and have been there for quite a while. However, there are other
stores on the block that are much better known for buying instruments. I
only bought reeds there once. If someone is really interested I can ask
friends of mine in Paris for more details.
My other observation is that their store is very small - it's basically
one medium size room unless there are other rooms hidden from view
somewhere - take a look at the photo under the heading "contact" for an idea
of their size. So I would verify the availability of instruments before
ordering or paying. Also prices are in TTC which means they already include
the TVA tax which is only applicable in France. I don't think someone ording
from outside of France has to pay this tax.Drake
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Patrick.Scully"
Subject: Re: [CB] French music store?
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 23:38:36 -0800
> I find that they [WW and BW] make a handy reference point, because their prices
> are either on the web or available pretty promptly by email, and they
> carry a wide variety of horns. No real problems with shipping,
> although as you've noted, sometimes you can end up waiting for quite
> a long time. The only times I've ordered an instrument in a hurry
> were a piccolo for my daughter (Yamaha, they had it in stock), and my
> Bb contra. They didn't have the contra in stock, but I arranged with
> Leblanc in WI to have one shipped directly from their stock (WW&BW
> was involved only because Leblanc wouldn't sell directly to me, the
> consumer): from order to receipt was a matter of days (I think less
> than a week). Certainly not a *representative* transaction ;-)Oh goodness no! Not a representative transaction at all! It would be like
calling a sale of Callaway golf clubs to Tiger Woods a representative
transaction. Granted, the contrabass community is a bit smaller than the
golfing one, but the proportion of the total market that "tunes in" to
www.contrabass.com, directly or indirectly, is such that it wouldn't have
surprised me if Gramps Leblanc himself made Grant's instrument by hand
personally and delivered it in his teeth with a certificates for a lifetime
supply of Vandies and a full no questions asked perpetual replacement
warranty! Seriously, though, just getting an instrument from Leblanc in the
manner that Grant described is so dramatically unlike my own experience that
I feel compelled to report what I think is the more typical Leblanc behavior
with a more typical customer: mere mortal me.In my post I mentioned the summary removal of my name from the BBb waitlist
at WW and BW - after having been on that list a year. In case the reader is
thinking "yeah, but how often does one purchase a brand new contrabass
clarinet...I mean, what are these lunatics talking about anyway?", let me
tell you about how long my used Leblanc contra has been in the shop waiting
for -- get this -- a set of pads. How about in excess of TWO MONTHS
(delivery date is "indefinite"). For a set of pads for an instrument that
is in production right here in the USA, a copy of which was delivered to
Grant in (this makes me cry!) a WEEK. My repair technician was told that
the 911 attacks had interfered with shipments from FRANCE. I didn't think
it was even worth my time telling my tech that Leblanc moved the contrabass
shop to KENOSHA WISCONSIN (I knew that because of my extensive discussions
with WWandBW over the course of the year that I languished on the Leblanc
waitlist). Next I will hear that a rare extractive from Afghan hemp is
required to glue the pads together, and that there has been a certain
setback in the supply. Hmmm. In this age of automated supply chains and
make-to-order manufacturing, nobody is winking at Leblanc's customer
"service" anymore. Get that hemp extract out of the pipes and onto the
pads!Still, I love my BBb Leblanc paperclip - or at least the thought of it. My
repair tech referred to it as a "spiffy...padless" clarinet. So I play my
Selmer Paris alto saxophone, dream about the Rosewood Selmer Contrabass
clarinet, and think about the day when Selmer forces Leblanc to act like a
company or get out of Dodge.
---------------------------------------------------------
From: MVinquist
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 17:36:04 EST
Subject: [CB] Standing to Play Leblanc Paperclip ContraJohn Kilpatrick asks about standing to play a Leblanc paperclip BBb
contrabass clarinet.I've never even considered it. If I did, I'd put the peg on a chair or the case.
I don't use a neckstrap, either. If I hooked one to the lower ring, if I let
go I think the instrument would flip upside down.For a while, I sat all the way back in an extra-deep chair, set the peg as
short as possible and put it between my legs on the chair. To mark the
music, I would lay the instrument across my lap. They're making the chairs
shorter these days :-) so I extend the peg to floor length and move it back
and to the right, bracing it against the chair leg and my right shoe, to get
a better angle for the mouthpiece. To mark the music, I move the peg forward
and toward the center, brace it against the my right shoe and cradle the
instrument against my left shoulder.It's just one of those things you can't afford to drop, any more than you
could a violin. I deliberately move slowly when I swing it around.If you feel like standing, get a Leblanc straight BBb contra (unfortunately
it goes down only to Eb), where you *have* to stand.At least we're not talking marching band here.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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