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Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 19:32:32 -0500
From: Paul Lindemeyer
Subject: Re: [CB] Riverside carillon> Dear Paul,
>
> Thanks for your e-mail reply. Yes, in part C. Lefevere wished to
> have a bell sound reminiscent of what he was accustomed to in Belgium.
> However, and sadly, the principal motivation was quite likely financial in
> the form of an enormous "kickback" from the bellfounder- this is alleged,
> but it is truly the only motivation that makes any sense. The amount of
> money involved was absolutely obscene, and it is doubtful that anyone one
> less than the stature of a saint would have been able to resist the
> temptation to have a slice of Mr. Rockefeller's cash.
> The "catfight" is indeed a major reason the carillon is heard so
> infrequently - it would be a major stretch to label the sound emanating from
> this carillon as "a joyful noise unto the Lord". The dreadful tonal and
> tuning complexion of the instrument is the principal reason the church has
> not been able to attract a world class carilloneur to be in residence.
> And yes, the difference between English bells and Dutch (and
> French) bells is like night and day in an amazing number of respects. It
> would take several pages to elaborate. Briefly, English bells tend to have a
> rich, dark, mysterious tonal bouquet, with a long "decay" period, wherin the
> tone of the bell "blossoms". The Dutch bells typically have an almost
> non-existent decay time and tend to sound in the main cold, icy unyielding-
> like glass shattering. Also, a vastly different concept of quality. The
> Dutch typically will cast a bell (of any size ) in asymmetrical molds
> (square boxes) above ground. This causes the casting to develop "hard
> spots", as the bell cools unevenly . The casting is usually broken from the
> mold far too soon (time pressure, bottom line). In order to fix the
> uneven-ness in the bell, is is customary to cut "vertical correction
> grooves' on the inside of the bell ; it is somewhat like trying to balance a
> tire using lead weights. These grooves screw up the nodal points in the
> bell. The tuning process is generally quick and rough- we call this "gouge
> tuning'. It is routine to see broad bands of rough virgin metal interrupted
> by truly rough machine cuts ( I have even seen examples of huge gouges left
> inside the bell where a large cutting tool has broken (likely under
> excessive pressure applied for the sake of getting the job done quickly). I
> have also seen huge casting flaws simply filled with cement colored with
> gold paint. And often, many of the bells end up looking like Swiss cheese
> from porosity. Other temptations often yielded to include reducing the tin
> ratio (to save a few bucks) and severely reducing the "pattern weight " of
> the casting (to save a few bucks). As you may imagine, neither of these has
> a beneficial effect on the tonal output of the bell.
> We no longer deal with the English founder Taylor , Loughborough,
> as the quality of their work has slipped drastically in the past few years.
> We deal mostly (though not exclusively) with Whitechapel, London, as their
> quality is absolutely beyond reproach ( they are keenly aware of the need to
> maintain a tradition of outstanding work dating from 1572). Even left to
> their own devices, they will deliver absolutely the most perfect work
> without fail. A couple of years ago, we designed and cast 4 huge carillon
> bells to complete the carillon at the National War Memorial in Wellington,
> N.Z. (largest being an Eb zero, weighing 14 metric tons, the heaviest Eb in
> existence) under contract to Whitechapel. Because their furnances could not
> pour that big a bell, the job was further subcontracted to a Continental
> foundry, the actual casting was done at the largest ship propeller foundry
> in Europe. The specification we wrote for the casting and tuning procedures
> ran to 50 pages, and the supervision of the Continental founder by
> Whitechapel and our own firm was constant, virtually around the clock ,
> covering every aspect of the work. The bells cast and tuned under this
> umbrella are phenomal in every respect..
> I would enjoy knowing about the preferences you mention exist in the
> saxophone world between the classical French, and the Ameican saxes (in
> another century, I used to play sax).
> The renovation is proceeding well. The new main clavier is finished and
> on display at the church. All the new bells have arrived, and most of these
> are on display.
> The old carillon treble bell frame and the Van Bergen bells have been
> removed. Most all the new pieces and parts (stainless steel clappers,
> transmission levers and pillow block bearings, etc.) have been delivered. We
> will continue installation work in the (late) spring. We are cutting no
> corners whatsoever in this job- it gets done when it gets done- the church
> does not want to be burned again, and has gone to extrodinary lengths in
> their research and contracting process to insure that the job is done to the
> highest standards. The tower is closed until the work is completed. However,
> I would be happy to take you (or your father) on a tour when we are on site
> (I would estimate late April- October 2001.
> Hope this is of some help. Would you kindly foward this to the
> Contrabass digest ? - the e-mail I have been sending to Grant lately has
> all been bouncing back, and I haven't been able to track down the problem as
> yet.
> With absolutely best wishes,
>
> Peter Hurd
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:51:13 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] bouncing messages> > Hope this is of some help. Would you kindly foward this to the
> > Contrabass digest ? - the e-mail I have been sending to Grant lately has
> > all been bouncing back, and I haven't been able to track down the
>problem as
> > yet.The problems is *probably* that I was out of town for the
Thanksgiving holiday, and forgot to postpone my subscriptions to
klarinet and doublereed: together, they can overwhelm my inbox in a
day or two. I suspect that the amount of space allocated to me on
the mail server also includes this list, so messages sent to the list
could also bounce under such circumstances.My apologies for any inconveniences.
Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Brit Minor"
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:09:38 -0500
Subject: [CB] Contrabass clarinet mouthpieces [was A Contra-alto question]Hello. I'm a new subscribee to the digest. I play an old paperclip-style LeBlanc BBb contrabass clarinet in the Charlottesville (VA) Municipal Band. A while back (25 years back, that is), I played CB clarinet in the San Jose Wind Ensemble under Darrell Johnston, predecessor to the San Jose Wind Symphony. So, in a sense, Grant is sitting in my chair. <grin>
Anyway, I'm also looking for a CB clarinet mouthpiece. My current horn came to me with a full-length Vito mouthpiece and an older LeBlanc mouthpiece that was 1/4-inch too short for VanDoren reeds. I played and fought the Vito for a few months, but tried the LeBlanc a couple of weeks ago, pulled out 1/4-inch...and it makes an amazing difference. Much fuller and more consistent sound, disregarding the squirrelly throat tones due to the pulled-out mouthpiece.
So, recommendation one to a previous writer: yes, by all means get a new mouthpiece. I'm considering a Selmer C* or the standard LeBlanc 2559. I doubt that the differences would be as subtle as those for soprano clarinet mouthpieces, so I'm not that concerned about trying a big selection. I have no clue, though, whether the Selmer would be worth the extra cost.
I'm intrigued by one suggestion on the web. In the mouthpiece FAQ at J&D Hite's web site, they recommend using a Selmer contra-alto mouthpiece, with bari sax reeds, for both contra-alto and contrabass clarinet. Has anyone tried this?
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 17:43:15 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] Contrabass clarinet mouthpieces [was A Contra-altoquestion]
It could work, as the Leblanc contra-alto and contrabass both have the same bore, although the Leblanc contra has a wider bore than the Selmer contra-alto (1.182" vs. 0.988"). If memory serves (not too well, today), I tried this about a year ago, and was underwhelmed by the result. My current favorite for the Leblanc contrabass is the Clark Fobes contra mpc (also available through WW&BW) with a Rovner ligature. Prior to that, I was using a Woodwind Bb contra mpc (Woodwind being a Leblanc subsidiary) with the same ligature.
Looking at the WW&BW site (http://www.woodwindbrasswind.com/productlisting.jsp?node=8302), there's only a difference of about $15 between the Woodwind and Selmer mouthpieces. They *might* be willing to send you several to try, returning the ones you don't want.
Best of luck!
Grant
>Hello. I'm a new subscribee to the digest. I play an old
>paperclip-style LeBlanc BBb contrabass clarinet in the
>Charlottesville (VA) Municipal Band. A while back (25 years back,
>that is), I played CB clarinet in the San Jose Wind Ensemble under
>Darrell Johnston, predecessor to the San Jose Wind Symphony. So, in
>a sense, Grant is sitting in my chair. <grin>
>
>Anyway, I'm also looking for a CB clarinet mouthpiece. My current
>horn came to me with a full-length Vito mouthpiece and an older
>LeBlanc mouthpiece that was 1/4-inch too short for VanDoren reeds.
>I played and fought the Vito for a few months, but tried the LeBlanc
>a couple of weeks ago, pulled out 1/4-inch...and it makes an amazing
>difference. Much fuller and more consistent sound, disregarding the
>squirrelly throat tones due to the pulled-out mouthpiece.
>
>So, recommendation one to a previous writer: yes, by all means get a
>new mouthpiece. I'm considering a Selmer C* or the standard LeBlanc
>2559. I doubt that the differences would be as subtle as those for
>soprano clarinet mouthpieces, so I'm not that concerned about trying
>a big selection. I have no clue, though, whether the Selmer would
>be worth the extra cost.
>
>I'm intrigued by one suggestion on the web. In the mouthpiece FAQ
>at J&D Hite's web site, they recommend using a Selmer contra-alto
>mouthpiece, with bari sax reeds, for both contra-alto and contrabass
>clarinet. Has anyone tried this?++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Izzo"
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:14:10 -0600
Subject: Re: [CB] Strasbourg?Hi Grant,
----- Original Message ----- >
>
> We're heading off to Strasbourg, FR in a few weeks, for vacation.
> Probably won't get back to Paris this trip, but my wife definitely
> wants to see part of Germany (the Black Forest, to be exact). Can
> anyone suggest anything that is a "must see" for the contrabass
> fanatic? ;-)
>
Sure. Stop in to Bremen & see the THEIN & MIRAFONE plants.
Mirafone makes 6 different models of Contrabass Trombones plus some
Contrabass Tubas. At Thein you can see 3 different models of Contrabass
TRombones, plus even the most rare instrument, the Piccolo Trombone (I have
one of the only 3 ever made).Tom
http://www.Geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/7875/---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 00:43:42 -0800
From: bitwise
Subject: Re: [CB] A Contra-alto questionGood input, John. This reed is very easy to choke. I think it's
probably much softer than it's rating would indicate. I'm going
to a #3 tomorrow.Follow-up on bari sax reed experiment: No sale. Reed too
narrow for the Bundy #3 mouthpiece. It speaks, but sound is
very airy, which doesn't help matters. In the present case, it does
make the problem measurably worse - circumstantial evidence
of a reed problem.Regarding hitting keys: I thought of that and adjusted hand
positions accordingly. Eb & E (and register counterparts Bb and
B) are still intermittent no-shows.For JJ and other technically-inclined readers: What about the
bell tenon? It seems loose. Could a leak there be interfering with
the creation of resonance in the bore? Bear in mind that the notes
most affected are those with most or all of the holes closed.Regarding lip positions and pressures: This horn is not blowing
easily, although it did when I first got it. At present, I find that I
have to hold back air to keep from overblowing, which is tiring.
Almost makes me feel like a beginner, which on bass clarinet
was about 27 years ago.Craig
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Fmmck
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 07:01:04 EST
Subject: Re: [CB] A Contra-alto question
In a message dated 11/28/00 3:45:27 AM, bitwise writes:
<< Bear in mind that the notes most affected are those with most or all of the holes closed. >>
Craig-
Have you checked the "bridge" linkages such as linkage between the first
finger right hand, to one or more keys higher on the instrument? In any case
where two pads close at the same time, there may be an adjustment to make
them close in unison. Sometimes it is a screw, sometimes a cork spacer
between linkage segments. I've had a lot of trouble with these adjustments.There may also be a linkage between the third finger right hand to the
register keys, although that should only affect notes requiring the use of
the register key.Fred McKenzie
MMB
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:16:40 -0500
From: "John Webster"
Subject: Re: [CB] A Contra-alto questionI'm begining to think you may have a loose pad somewhere in the middle, or as someone suggested keywork loose enought to shift a pad slightly.
John
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:47:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Mumpower
Subject: Re: [CB] Contrabass clarinet mouthpieces [was A Contra-altoquestion]> Looking at the WW&BW site
[...]
> They *might* be willing to send you several to
> try, returning the ones you don't want.Yes. I just ordered three BBb mouthpieces in precisely this manner from
WW&BW. (You have to specifically request this sort of trial arrangement.) If
you end up keeping none of the mouthpieces, there is a service charge, but
that is relatively nominal compared to the cost of a contrabass mouthpiece.
:-)
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 10:32:45 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: Re: [CB] A Contra-alto question
>For JJ and other technically-inclined readers: What about the
>bell tenon? It seems loose. Could a leak there be interfering with
>the creation of resonance in the bore? Bear in mind that the notes
>most affected are those with most or all of the holes closed.
>
>Regarding lip positions and pressures: This horn is not blowing
>easily, although it did when I first got it. At present, I find that I
>have to hold back air to keep from overblowing, which is tiring.
>Almost makes me feel like a beginner, which on bass clarinet
>was about 27 years ago.My guess is that the register key mechanism isn't properly regulated,
and/or that the Eb or Bb pad(s) aren't closing. It is especially
easy for the Bb pad (the pad that is linked to RH1 and RH2, and
closes when either RH1 or RH2 is pressed) to be misadjusted, and not
close all the way when playing. A leak near the middle of the horn
can (a) throw off the pitch of the note or two just below the leaking
pad, and (b) act like an ersatz register pad for notes twice as far
down the bore. If you have trouble playing between middle C and the
open/throat G, I would suspect the A/G# throat keys and/or the
register mechanism. Register key leaks can be harder to spot, due to
the tubes that extend into the instrument bore. If you have a wooden
instrument, you'd also want to check for cracks in those areas.The bell tenon doesn't seem like a likely candidate to me, but you
can always try playing the horn without the bell and see what
difference it makes. My guess is that it won't change the playing
characteristics significantly.Best of luck!
Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 20:46:05 +0000
From: Terje Lerstad
Subject: Re: [CB] A Contra-alto question (or answer?)Hallo,
Interesting reading about all the problems about the contras.I have both an Eb contraalto and a Bb contrabass socalled "paperclip" Leblanc models (paperclip is in norwegian "binders", and is a Norwegian invention by Mr. Johan Vaaler from 1899!), both descending to low C (written). I have read all discussions about mouthpieces and reeds, and one thing is for sure: don't waste time and money by trying to use baritone sax reeds!
Even though the Selmers are of a smaller bore than the Leblancs,they use the same reeds and the same bore of the mouthpiece. I have a Selmer C* and a Selmer C**, both quite good, but still I found out that one of my 5 Leblanc mouthpieces suited the Leblanc instruments better (maybe, as someone stated, a Selmer D (more open) would be OK).
The same mouthpieces that I have tryed out on the Selmer, Leblanc, Buffet, Bundy and Vito instruments work fine. But I'm sorry: I don't consider the Vito and Bundy "professional" instruments: you can use them for simple band arrangements, but not to play a complete solo concert.
I use Vandoren contrabass clarinet reeds, which are easy to get here now (expensive, but properly played in, you can use each a long time). Old 3 1/2 trimmed down to something like 2 1/2.
Terje Lerstad
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 14:19:56 -0700
From: Grant Green
Subject: [CB] Harryphone?
I was just listening to a CD of music by Ana-Maria Avram and Iancu
Dumitrescu (Edition Modern, MN 1002), and ran across reference to a
"harryphone". I understand that it is some form of percussion
instrument, but can anyone enlighten me further? Doesn't seem to be
in Andrew's book...Thanks,
Grant
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant Green
ecode:contrabass http://www.contrabass.com
Professional Fool -> http://www.mp3.com/ProFools
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------------------------------From: Opusnandy
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 17:36:03 EST
Subject: Re: [CB] Harryphone?My guess (and it is only that) would be that the "Harryphone" might be an
invention of Harry Partch (Parch?), formerly of the University of Illinois,
who was famous (infamous?) for inventing many homemade instruments. These
were often quarter tone instruments and were mostly percussion instruments.
Unfortunately I don't have much more information on him than that, but
perhaps others on the list are aware of Harry's instruments.Jonathan Carreira
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