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From: "David Neubauer" <dnmagic@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Recording a contrabassoon
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:53:22 -0800
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comJohn, the concert I gave with my brother (Contrabassoon/Viola) was
recorded for "Performance Today", and they had the usual problem. It
recorded the audience side notes at one level, and the performer side
notes at a different one. However, this was what they did and you
live with it. If the mic was too close, you would pick up the key
rattle, too far and you get what we had (though it sounds fine, took
me a while to hear the difference, now it's all I hear). The
alternative is to do it via pickup. I play it amplified with a big
band here in LA (playing the Bass Trombone part), and after much
experimentation, ended up putting a pickup on the bocal, sandwiched
between very thin wood and a bunch of rubber. It works really well,
hope that helps...David
www.dnmagic.comFrom: John Fierke <jfierke@media100.com>
Subject: recording
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:22:11 -0500
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comThere is a great quote in this months RECORDING magazine the
list might enjoy. The particular article is about choosing microphones
to get a good recorded sound."The most important thing about picking a microphone is to use your
ears and not panic when confronted with a new situation. (oh-oh,
I've never recorded a contrabassoon before ..... )Unfortunately it's just a throw away line, they don't actually go on
to give any specific tips about contrabassoon recording .....
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 05:47:28 -0800
From: Lawrence de Martin <demartin@tesser.com>
Subject: Re: Recording
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com> From: John Fierke <jfierke@media100.com>
> There is a great quote in this months RECORDING magazine ... about
> choosing microphones:
> "The most important thing about picking a microphone is to use your
> ears and not panic when confronted with a new situation. (oh-oh,
> I've never recorded a contrabassoon before ..... )"
> Unfortunately it's just a throw away line, they don't actually go on to
> give any specific tips about contrabassoon recording .....Since the list has made a significant number of contrabass recordings,
what microphones did you all use? Also, what sort of rooms are best for
contrabass recording?Thank you,
Larry de Martin
---------------------------------------------------------From: "Merlin Williams" <merlinw@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: Recording
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:59:17 -0500
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>Since the list has made a significant number of contrabass recordings,
>what microphones did you all use? Also, what sort of rooms are best for
>contrabass recording?90% of the recording I'm doing right now involves acoustically balanced
groups (concert band, orchestra, sax quartet, etc.) I'm using a Crown
SASS-P Mk II mic for all of these. It's a stereo mic that uses pressure
zone mic technology. I just have to find a sweet spot, set it up, and get
the levels right.I use a Behringer Ultragain tube mic preamp and a Tascam DA-30 MkII DAT
machine as my recording medium. I'll occasionally use my Aiwa MD recorder
as emergency backup.Low response with the setup has been very good, though the lowest
frequencies I generally encounter are about 40 hz (string bass and tuba.) I
unfortunately sold my Leblanc contra a couple of years ago. I'm going to
get the bass sax out and give it a whirl...I've been meaning to embed a
sound file in the picture of me playing bass sax on my web page.BTW, I've just added a recording page to my website. There are four mp3
samples for you to check out.Merlin Williams
http://www.netcom.ca/~merlinw
A member of the SaxRing,
the Duke Ellington Ring,
and the Single Reed Ring.
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Opusnandy@aol.com
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:06:55 EST
Subject: Contra Prices
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comAnyone out there remember what the contrabass sarrusophone went for on eBay a
couple of months ago? Also, what's the average that bass saxes have been
going for out there (on eBay or elsewhere)?Doin' some pricing,
Jon Carreira
---------------------------------------------------------From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:45:19 EST
Subject: Re: China
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIn a message dated 12/13/1999 10:18:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jfierke@media100.com writes:<< >> The millenium begins 1/1/2001!!!
Well gee, since the event is in China, they don't even use our
calendar, and I don't believe this year or next are on any sort
of nice round number.If the millennium were actually a 'real' thing, then you might have a
technical point. However, the millennium is just a joint agreement to
mark a point in time as particularly significant because it's a nice
round number.If you want to get picky, the particular calendar we are working with
Is supposedly based on the birth of Christ, I'm not aware of any scholars
who actually believe he was born in year 1, generally somewhere between
3-7 AD seems to be the consensus. So maybe the millennium doesn't
actually begin for another 8 years .......
>>I'm not THAT picky! I'll celebrate ALL those events! Doesn't matter what the
correct one is, but according to the accepted calendar, The millenium starts
1/1/1. There was no "Y-Zero", was there? Only reason I mention this is that
there can be an EVEN BIGGER party next year, since THIS year looks like it
might be a BUST with everyone staying home in fear of the oogie-boogie Y2K
Bug! All of a sudden there are lots of cheap New Year's vacations in Florida
or on Carnival Cruises and lots of other places. I had a gig cancel for New
Year's because the town decided not to go there!
< In a bizarre case of synchronicity, I just got a call for a New Year's big
band gig WHILE I was typing this email !!! Dropped carrier and everything! >
Save some fireworks for New Millenium's Eve on 1/1/1,
but don't neglect the Faux Mille Soire!!!!Have a Happy "Whatever-it-is-you-celebrate"!!
Heliconman@aol.com
---------------------------------------------------------From: Heliconman@aol.com
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:25:20 EST
Subject: Re: recording
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIn a message dated 12/13/1999 10:22:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jfierke@media100.com writes:<<
There is a great quote in this months RECORDING magazine the
list might enjoy. The particular article is about choosing microphones
to get a good recorded sound."The most important thing about picking a microphone is to use your
ears and not panic when confronted with a new situation. (oh-oh,
I've never recorded a contrabassoon before ..... )Unfortunately it's just a throw away line, they don't actually go on to
give any specific tips about contrabassoon recording .....
>>Having interned in recording studios for a couple of years, I watched various
instruments being mic-ed and recorded. First off...YES! Use your ears!
Different people prefer different equalizations. The performer, band leader,
producer and engineer will probably all have slightly different ideas of what
a good contrabasson should sound like, but to get the sound that YOU, the
performer want to be recorded, your best bet is to work with the engineer.
The best time to tweak your sound is BEFORE the actual performance, when the
mics are being set up. One sign of a good engineer is one who puts good
sounds on tape before he starts playing with equalization, effects and
balance between the other voices. I remember one session where we spent a
little while moving the mic around in front of a guitar amp to find the
"sweet spot". Once it was found, the grill cloth was marked with an X in
grease pencil so as to speed up the mic setup for the next session. Another
memorable session, I was taught to point the mic directly at the spot on a
snare drum where it was struck by the drumstick so as to get the maximum
amount of treble. The reson is that when you are EQing the sound later, you
can reduce the treble if it's on the tape, but it's harder to add it. The
bass and midrange aren't as difficult. You just reduce the treble and the
bass is there, unmasked by treble. I guess this is because a bass sound wave
is wider than the treble sound wave, so you need to get very directional with
the treble. As far as the very low frequencies, perhaps there are particular
mics that handle the low end better. Perhaps a pair of mics, one near the
bell for lower frequencies and one near the keys (find the sweet spot!) for
more treble. There may be a spot within the room your are recording in that
accentuates the bass particularly well. A mic here would be good too. But
what it really boils down to is "use your ears" to get a good sound on tape
before you perform and record the music. You may be restricted on time for
scheduling or financial reasons, so just be aware of where your mic is
pointing and BE THERE at a set distance. If you keep moving toward and away
from the mic it will screw up the dynamics of the recording (and irritate the
engineer, if he/she's worth their salt. If you find you're working with an
amateur engineer, educate them if you can. They may not care that much. If
not, just tell them what you want....more reed buzz, less key click, more
rumble, less nasal...play with the sound until your EARS are happy. THEN
record the tune!
On the other hand, your engineer may not have the capability or opportunity
or even desire to get the sound you want. There may be interference from the
band leader or producer or there may be a very limited amount of time and/or
money to get picky about your particular sound. In that case, get about 2
feet from the mic and pray. See how it sounds after your first take and
adjust. Listen like crazy!
End of redundant rant.
Holiday Cheers!
---------------------------------------------------------From: Colin.HARRIS@dfee.gov.uk
Subject: RE: String basses
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:41:16 -0000
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comThere is a B as part of the great fugue in Also Sprach Zarathrustra on the
main theme. The Bb is in Electra, I think.-----Original Message-----
From: Robert S. Howe [mailto:arehow@vgernet.net]
Sent: 13 December 1999 11:21
To: contrabass@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: String basses
Colin.HARRIS@dfee.gov.uk wrote:
>
> CONTRABASS@contrabass.com
> =========================
> *
>
> Richard Strauss often askes for low B and Bb.Where? Can you provide an example? So far as I can recall, der
Strausser only writes basses down to C.The low F# in the violins in Metamorphoses, written in his late 70s, was
not intended to be played, but merely to ensure that the fiddlers
phrased properly.Robert Howe
----------------------
end contrabass list
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:11:35 +0000
From: David Bobroff <bobroff@centrum.is>
Subject:
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>>> The millenium begins 1/1/2001!!!
>they don't even use our
>calendar,Ah, but when someone is talking about the "upcoming millenium" it
necessarily refers to the calender that currently shows the year 1999.>If you want to get picky, the particular calendar we are working with
>Is supposedly based on the birth of Christ, I'm not aware of any scholars
>who actually believe he was born in year 1,Correct, but this is not entirely relevant. The calender of which we speak
is *conceptually* numbered from the year of the birth of Jesus the
Nazarean. Human numbering systems begin with "1". Therefore, in this
calendar system the second millenium *ends* at the end of 31 December, 2000.How is this relevant to contrabass instruments? I don't know. I was
playing my contrabass trombone this morning (5 Tevet 5760) with a brass
quintet.David Bobroff
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 06:58:41 -0700
From: Robert Martin <rnm@azstarnet.com>
Subject: Re:
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>
> >>> The millenium begins 1/1/2001!!!
>
> >they don't even use our
> >calendar,Well, actually the Chinese DO use the western calendar. The
calendar (meaning the months, days, etc.) is the same but
the numbering of years starts at a different point. Following
old practice, they number by the current dynasty one is in.
The current one is the formation of the republic started by Sun
Yat-Sen in the early part of this century. So it is now
14 December 88 (I think) in China. This is true for both the PRC
(China) and Taiwan (ROC).
The old lunar based calendar is only used for figuring Chinese
new year and such. But, that is no different than the west which
uses a lunar calendar to calculate Easter, Lent, etc.The western calendar dates from the Romans not the Christian
era, doesn't it? It was the Julian calendar (as in Julius Caesar)
until a few centuries ago when it was revised by Pope Gregory to
the Gregorian Calendar (Some countries like Russia didn't
change until 1918). The start of the numbering of year 1 came
as a projection back many centuries later which is why they got it wrong.And the years are ordinal numbers not cardinal numbers.
I.E. it is currently the 1999th year NOT year 1999. In the
same sense it is the currently the 20th century.
Why did they start numbering at 1 and not 0? Well, I imagine
it is because western culture did not have our current
system of decimal, Arabic numbers until the later part of
the first millennium! There is no concept of zero or symbol zero
in Roman Numerals. You can't write year 0 in roman numerals.
Makes math in roman numerals a bit hard also....Bottom line: The new millennium starts 1/1/2001. This is all a bunch
of commercial hype about 2000.And yes, I know, this has absolutely nothing to do with contrabass
or music. Sorry, but I couldn't resist commenting after reading
several of those messages.
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Fmmck@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:23:16 EST
Subject: Re: Cardinal Octave
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIn a message dated 12/14/99 8:57:59 AM, rnm@azstarnet.com writes:
<< And the years are ordinal numbers not cardinal numbers.
I.E. it is currently the 1999th year NOT year 1999. >>Robert-
Please explain. This sounds like double talk to me!
Is this something like naming the "32 foot octave", which contains shorter
notes as well?Fred McKenzie
<A HREF="http://www.dreamnetstudios.com/music/mmb/index.htm">MMB</A>
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:26:47 GMT
From: mkilpatr@arm.com (Michael Kilpatrick)
Subject: Shut up about the bloody millennium
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI didn't join this e-mail list just to listen to people
harping on about the millennium.I get more than enough spam and junk e-mail without this, thankyou very
much.Michael
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:28:47 GMT
From: mkilpatr@arm.com (Michael Kilpatrick)
Subject: Learning clarinet/bass clarinet
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comPeeps,
any recommendations on bass clarinets as a first clarinet for a
baritone saxophonist? Any reason why perhaps I ought to learn
on a Bb clarinet beforehand?Any advice welcome, as long as it contains no reference to the
millennium.thanks,
Michael
---------------------------------------------------------From: "J. Daniel Ashton" <jdashton@bellsouth.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:49:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Learning clarinet/bass clarinet
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>>>>>> "MK" == Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
MK> any recommendations on bass clarinets as a first clarinet for a
MK> baritone saxophonist? Any reason why perhaps I ought to learn
MK> on a Bb clarinet beforehand?Well, I went at the it other way - low clarinets first, then
saxophones. I would recommend any clarinet with plateau keys - the
thing that still trips me up most often is ring keys and not getting my
finger all the way across the hole. <squeak>I've been lusting over a Leblanc model 430S Bass and 300S Alto. (See
http://www.gleblanc.com/gleblanc/leb-alto.pdf ) I tend to see the
world of low clarinets through Leblanc France eyes because I love their
340 paperclip contrabass. For their entire clarinet catalog, see
http://www.gleblanc.com/gleblanc/lebclcat.html .--
J. Daniel Ashton ICQ# 9445142 mailto:jdashton@southern.edu
http://www.southern.edu/~jdashton mailto:jdashton@us.ibm.com
PGP key available send NeXTmail --> mailto:jdashton@bellsouth.net
---------------------------------------------------------From: Fmmck@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:26:48 EST
Subject: Re: Learning clarinet/bass clarinet
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIn a message dated 12/14/99 10:30:11 AM, mkilpatr@arm.com writes:
<< any recommendations on bass clarinets as a first clarinet for a
baritone saxophonist? >>Michael-
If you are serious, and determined to double on Bass Clarinet professionally,
you might consider going ahead and getting a Pro instrument, such as one from
Selmer or Buffet. The latest models from both companies are reported to be
outstanding instruments.If you don't want to spend that much money, consider the LeBlanc Vito. It
has a fairly good reputation, and can be had for around $900 new. I've seen
them going for $400 to $600 on E-Bay.Still can't make up your mind? Consider renting one from a music store that
rents to high school band students.As far as learning on Bb Soprano Clarinet, it might teach you the skills
needed to play the highest notes on the Bass, which are hard to play on some
instruments. I don't see any advantage otherwise, but then I've never played
Saxophone!Fred McKenzie
<A HREF="http://www.dreamnetstudios.com/music/mmb/index.htm">MMB</A>
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:06:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Recording
From: Michael J Effenberger <tyrthegreatandpowerful@juno.com>
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIronically, a small, clip-on condenser mic, the Audio-Technica 35x (I
think) does a surprisingly good job picking up tuba. I used it
exclusively on my last recording of Cacophony (a tuba/euph quartet).
Interested people can, by the way, check us out at either
http://geocities.com/bigmikeyf/projects.html, or at
http://bwhitney.webjump.com/cacophony/cacophony.htm. Anyway, other
than this, I use an AKG C3000 large-diaphragm condenser mic, and that
does a pretty good job when working in a large space (cacophony was done
in a living room, hence the clip-ons). Large rooms like churches and
nice stairwells have always improved my tone. Hardwood floors are a
plus.
-Mike EffenbergerOn Mon, 13 Dec 1999 05:47:28 -0800 Lawrence de Martin
<demartin@tesser.com> writes:
>CONTRABASS@contrabass.com
>=========================
>*
>
>> From: John Fierke <jfierke@media100.com>
>
>> There is a great quote in this months RECORDING magazine ... about
>> choosing microphones:
>> "The most important thing about picking a microphone is to use your
>> ears and not panic when confronted with a new situation. (oh-oh,
>> I've never recorded a contrabassoon before ..... )"
>> Unfortunately it's just a throw away line, they don't actually go on to
>> give any specific tips about contrabassoon recording .....
>
>Since the list has made a significant number of contrabass recordings,
>what microphones did you all use? Also, what sort of rooms are best for
>contrabass recording?
>
>Thank you,
>
>Larry de Martin___________________________________________________________________
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