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From: "Gregg Bailey" <greggbailey@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pipe organs
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:45:10 CDT
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com><<
>Why don't more people play the pipe organ????? One has total
>control of everything, and the low notes are the best of any mouth-
>blown wind instrument.
>>>
>Difficulty, expense, size, timbre...Sorry, I lost my train of thought.
EXPENSE: organists don't HAVE to buy their own pipe organs!
What about size and timbre are you referring to?
-Gregg
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---------------------------------------------------------From: "Gregg Bailey" <greggbailey@hotmail.com>
Subject: Bass saxes?
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:50:59 CDT
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>my bari goes to a concert C. My (ca. 1915 Conn) bass sax goes
>to an Ab: four half steps are all that separate these instruments.Does ANYBODY make a Bass with a low A? It seems silly to NOT have
the low A, since the bass is mainly for low notes beyond the bari.
-Gregg_______________________________________________________________
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---------------------------------------------------------From: "Gregg Bailey" <greggbailey@hotmail.com>
Subject: Odd double reeds
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:04:39 CDT
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>According to her the bass oboe is much
>easier to play because it responds more like an oboe or English horn and
>because it uses standard oboe keywork and fingerings. Apparently the
>Heckelphone uses some other key system and responds somewhat differently
>because of a larger bore.I didn't know that there was a difference between a Heckelphone
and an oboe. What are all the sizes in the Heckelphone family, and
which is the main one? Why aren't they used regularly in ensembles?
That reminds me of something else. The saxophone is a single-reed
conical instrument, the bassoon-oboe is a doublereed conical, the
clarinet is a single-reed cylindrical, so why isn't a doublereed
cylindrical instrument used as a standard instrument? I know that
there was once a cromorne or krummhorn, but they are curved. Has there
ever been such a thing as what I'm asking about--basically a clarinet
with a double reed?
Does a tarogato sound like a wooden saxophone? Again, why isn't
this a standard instrument in ensembles?
The variety of instruments available in bands and orchestras seems
very limited compared to what it could be. If tarogatos and
(cromornes) were added, and the entire families of instruments were
represented (i.e. highest saxophone to lowest), ensembles could me more
like pipe organs, and a smooth homogeneous sound could be achieved when
desired.
Couldn't that be neat?
-Gregg
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---------------------------------------------------------From: "Gregg Bailey" <greggbailey@hotmail.com>
Subject: Wind extensions
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:16:43 CDT
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>if they make low clarinets with all these low extensions then why not
>make the fellow saxophone with such extensions? i would imagine it would
>make bari have a more powerful lower register.That's what I was thinking!
In fact, why don't higher clarinets have this added range? All it
does is makes the instrument all the more versatile! It's interesting
that the A clarinet and Basset clarinet are the same instrument except
that the Basset has the extension. Why own an A when you can own a
Basset, which is a more versatile A???
-Gregg
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---------------------------------------------------------From: "Aaron Rabushka" <arabushk@cowtown.net>
Subject: Re: Odd double reeds
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:21:32 -0500
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI've run across the taragot in some old folkloric recordings, and also in
some albums of klezmer (Finjan) and other Yiddish (Lex Goudsmit) songs. In
these recordings it sounds metallic rather than wooden,closer in tone to a
sax than to a clarinet.Aaron J. Rabushka
arabushk@cowtown.net---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Gregg Bailey" <greggbailey@hotmail.com>
Subject: Email malfunction?
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:30:45 CDT
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI have been receiving only 1 copy of everyone's postings, but I just
received 2 copies of each of my postings just now. Did anyone else get
2 copies of my messages? I hope not. The first copies say they're
from my name, and the 2nd copies say they're from my email address.
-Gregg
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---------------------------------------------------------From: CoolStu67@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:35:58 EDT
Subject: Re: [Contra digest]
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com<<
actually there isn't an extreme amount of difference between the bass and
contralto clarinet...almost the same difference as the bari to the bass.
>>BARI: Db or C BASS: Ab
BASS: Db or Bb CONTRALTO: GbIt might not be extreme, but Db to Gb is a wide difference... much
greater than C to Ab.<<
keep in mind the big clarinets do not cost as much as the comprable big sax.plus if they make low clarinets with all these low extensions then why not
make the fellow saxophone with such extensions? i would imagine it would
make bari have a more powerful lower register.
>>Clarinets are straight and cyndrical; therefor it don't affect the sound as much to add
length than it does to a curved, conical saxophone. The reason people get bass
saxophones is for that power and lowness you desire, and it is built for that. What I
mean by that, is the basses are designed for the pitch it produces; its bore and taper
for low D is not the same of a bari playing low A (I think; I might be wrong. I just know
a bass is much thicker than a bari!). Imagine making a contrabass clarinet out of an
extended bass clarinet tube, would it sound as good as a true contra? I hope you all
get the jist of what I'm saying.Stuart
-Sax/Clarinet---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Gregg Bailey" <greggbailey@hotmail.com>
Subject: Tarogato family
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:44:03 CDT
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>In
>these recordings [the tarogato] sounds metallic rather than wooden,closer in tone to a
>sax than to a clarinet.Interesting. What are all the sizes in the tarogato family? I
bet a contrabass tarogato would rumble some walls!!!!
-Gregg_______________________________________________________________
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---------------------------------------------------------From: CoolStu67@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:47:03 EDT
Subject: Re: Clarinet key designation
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com<<
Why is the Clarion register the dominant one, rather than the
chalumeau? Bb clarinet would become Eb clarinet; Eb alto would become
Ab alto, and Ab sopranino would become Db sopranino.
Actually, the clarinet is in THREE keys: Eb, Bb, and G (altissimo
fingerings)!!
-Gregg
>>I understand this theory for the "double clarinet", but I do not agree with it at all. The
clarinet is a clarinet; not a saxophone, not a flute, nor anyother instrument except
the clarinet! The clarient is one instrument, in the key of Bb, and it's fingerings are
quite tricky between registers because it is cyndrical, and does not have the
capacity to jump the octave. The throat keys were created for this, and that is why
the fingers switch around after the break.Stuart
-Sax/Clarinet
---------------------------------------------------------From: CoolStu67@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:11:01 EDT
Subject: Re: Misc.
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com<<
What I mean is that maneuvering the keys on clarinet (in a single
register) is much easier than on sax or flute; you don't have to slide
any fingers on clarinet because there are so many alternate keys,
especially down low, which the sax and flute don't have. Just try
playing a trill on flute between low B and low C#!! All I mean is that
the keywork for clarinet seems the most logical of all, so why don't
all woodwinds incorporate it, disregarding the throat keys.?
>>You can have these alternate keys because the clarinet is straight, and you don't
have to worry about closing different hole on the other side and down a few inches. It
would be quite a mess to make the low Bb, B, and C# keys automatically close the
C tonehole. Even if you did that well, you would still have to worry about the Eb
key, and if you slapped on the table keys, it would be quite difficult to control 5 notes
with one quite weak finger! Providing everything works properly, if would be
awfully hard to provide enough pressure to control that big chunk of American
mechanism!<<
I am talking about putting clarinet keywork on other woodwinds,
which DON'T jump the twelfth. Not only does this seam easier to me,
but it would be one less thing multi-instrumentalists would have to
worry about, if all woodwinds had clarinet keywork.
>>Oh yeah, converting six instruments to one keywork system is no problem at all :)
Especially lifetime players! (joke, begin laughing... NOW) <grin><<
Right!
>>So what would be the point? That would just confuse a WHOLE bunch of people.
<<
Why would you want to do that??
>>I don't know, you were saying the subcontra is really the contrabass since
you said contrabass means an octave lower than the bass sax. I only provided
an answer.<<
DIFFICULTY: learning to play it is most rewarding; also, you
don't have to worry about reeds not working! Actually, learning how
the impressive (confusing at first) console works is part of the fun!!
>>True, as with all instruments, so everybody switching to pipe organ is
pointless :)<<
Gloating, are we?
-Gregg
-flute (piccolo, flute)
-sax (tenor, bari)
-clarinet (Bb, alto, bass, contralto, contrabass)
-piano
-pipe organ (Yes!!)
>>Actually no. If you've been with the list awhile, you would know I always sign like
that. I've recently decided to cut my signature down to one line, and I would suggest
you do also. Try maybe,
Gregg
-Flute/Clarinet/Sax/Piano/Organ
Well, it's been fun. I love this type of discussion! BTW, I look forward to reading your
interesting posts, Gregg.Stuart
-Sax/Clarinet
---------------------------------------------------------From: CoolStu67@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:14:33 EDT
Subject: Re: Pipe organs
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com<<
Sorry, I lost my train of thought.
EXPENSE: organists don't HAVE to buy their own pipe organs!
What about size and timbre are you referring to?
-Gregg
>>I must be confused, I was referring to church organs. They are huge! How big are
pipe organs? Also, how do they sound compared to a church organ? I am not fond
of the church organ's sound, too Medieval-like.Stuart
-Sax/Clarinet
---------------------------------------------------------From: CoolStu67@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:21:04 EDT
Subject: Re: Bass saxes?
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com<<
Does ANYBODY make a Bass with a low A? It seems silly to NOT have
the low A, since the bass is mainly for low notes beyond the bari.
-Gregg
>>
This is something I'm curious about as well. It does seem strange not to put the
extension. I've asked Dr. Paul Cohen about this (also about a contrabass with low
A), and his answer is the same--- it would be pointless. Although I do not particularly
agree with this, until clinicians and doctors start to think our way, we are left with
paying ORSI to make it, or by stuffing a size 22 foot in the bell. Let's all start
petitioning LA Sax...Stuart
-Sax/Clarinet
---------------------------------------------------------From: CoolStu67@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:33:26 EDT
Subject: Re: Odd double reeds
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com<<
I didn't know that there was a difference between a Heckelphone
and an oboe. What are all the sizes in the Heckelphone family, and
which is the main one? Why aren't they used regularly in ensembles?
>>A Heckelphone is an octave lower than an oboe, and has a larger bell. I recall it
coming in a regular, soprano and a higher F versions. The regular one is the basic Heckel,
sharing the range of a bass oboe. They are EXTREMELY expensive, and besides the
fact it was invented (like the saxophone not being in orchestras), it is too expensive
to be a standard.<<
Does a tarogato sound like a wooden saxophone? Again, why isn't
this a standard instrument in ensembles?
>>Not sure, but ethnic instruments usually aren't standard.
<<
The variety of instruments available in bands and orchestras seems
very limited compared to what it could be. If tarogatos and
(cromornes) were added, and the entire families of instruments were
represented (i.e. highest saxophone to lowest), ensembles could me more
like pipe organs, and a smooth homogeneous sound could be achieved when desired.
Couldn't that be neat?
>>I agree. Unfortunately, having all these instruments would cost much, and
composers generally like to stick with what they know.Stuart
-Sax/Clarinet
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:38:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: Shouryu Nohe <jnohe@nmsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Wind extensions
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com
On Sat, 10 Apr 1999, Gregg Bailey wrote:> In fact, why don't higher clarinets have this added range? All it
> does is makes the instrument all the more versatile! It's interesting
> that the A clarinet and Basset clarinet are the same instrument except
> that the Basset has the extension. Why own an A when you can own a
> Basset, which is a more versatile A???The basset clarinet comes with it's own set of hassles that differenciate
from the standard clarinet, just as a basset horn has it's own hassles
separate from the alto clarinet. However, whereas most of the problems
separating the BH and AC are due to the bore, the nuances of basset
clarinets and standard clarinets are rather varied.(For clarification's sake, and I imagine someone might ask later, other
than being in F and Eb and the C extension, the basset horn has a very
narrow bore in comparison to an alto clarinet - the basset is bored very
closely to a soprano clarinet, and the alto is bored closer to the bass
clarinet...well, originally, at least...today's bassets are much more
similar to altos (with the exception of the Buffet...I THINK), to the
point where they ought to be called alto clarinets in F, rather than
basset horns....any how, I digress...)The C extension on the basset clarinet adds a significant amount of
weight, which will totally kill the right wrist if constantly used. My
wrist is always hurting by the end of the day, due to 3-4 hours of
rehearsals (two consecutive) and 1.5-2 hours of practice on my own. On
bad days, I will use a neck strap, but standard...well, the only one I
know of is the claricord....the claricord won't work correctly on a basset
clarinet - the added length throws the pivot point off (this concerns
balance and the angle and where the hands are placed - the weight is no
longer evenly distributed). The basset must be outfitted with a second
hook, close to the bell, and a double hook strap, like those used on bass
clarinets, must be utilized. Most people I've spoken with or seen using
bassets play the thing without a strap - too much trouble, they say. Two
run throughs of standard Mozart lit is about the limit the wrist takes,
I've also been told. However - if you're just playing chamber music, you
can sit and utilize a peg. Still a hassle, IMO.(I have heard of one player standing and using a long peg, I think it was
Neil Leoupold...however, I tend to 'move musically' so I wouldn't care for
that...)Also, is it worth another 2k-2.5k (Buffet prestige A, about 2.5k, Buffet
Prestige A Basset, 5k) for four notes you will rarely use? When do we see
basset notes? Mozart's music, and that's just about it. And to be
honest, in the big picture, Mozart's clarinet music, as great as it may
be, is merely a crumb in the big pie of the repertoire we play.I'm not certain of the manufactured basset clarinets of recent, but I know
that the custom ones that David Shifrin and Sabine Meyer own utilize a
double register key. And finally, in the 80's when we thought we
finally got rid of that blasted thing, it comes back on an another
instument! I've played a few old basses with double register keys - they
sound okay, but it's a bi...er, big nuiscance to have to remember which r.
key to press on which notes when you're used to playing with the single
register keys all instruments use today.(Out of curiousity, did saxes ever have two register keys? I mean, they
use a double key mechanism like today's pro bass clarinets, so I would
guess that they had two keys way back when....)The double register mechanism on a soprano clarinet isn't standard; we
don't need them on standard clarinets. However, because they are
necessary on basset clarinets, they introduce totally new intonation and
tone quality problems. Another break can be heard occasionally...well,
REALLY good players play so good that you can't hear any breaks, so
nevermind. But intonation is still wackier.Does the added range eliminate the throat (by cheating with long
fingerings) ? From what I've been told is no, because the long Bb, A, Ab,
and G's sound downright yucky...which sort of surprises me, because on
alto, bass, c-alto, and c-bass, the long Bb doesn't sound too bad.So, while I'm a bass freak (I'm on this list, aren't I?), I don't feel the
standardized addition of a basset register to soprano clarinets is
benificial when weighed against the drawbacks. Do I plan on getting one?
You bet - but I also plan on winning a principal gig in a pro orchestra
and later becoming a world reknowned conductor. If I got a permanent gig
in the Mostly Mozart Orchestra, I would for sure have one - it would be
indespensible, because that's where it's needed. But you wouldn't use it
much elsewhere.While I love low notes, I've always contended that you use the right
clarinet for the right register. It pisses me off when these modern
composers ignore the existance of the Eb and insist on writing runs and
lots of crazy parts above altissimo G on the Bb (Philip Sparke and Rolf
Rudin are two examples). Those notes are a bi...er, big pain to play
accurately and in tune consistently. If you need notes that high, I
believe you should write them for the Eefer! It is my opinion that this
should go the other way, too - if there's gonna be lots of lows, why not
just write it for the alto?It's probably a pretty lousy view to have - I'm certainly not against
extended harmony clarinets - a bass going to low C is a fantastic thing,
and if I had a choice about it, I wouldn't be without one. Why? Because
a whole stinkin' lot of today's band repertoire calls for that register to
be used. I would actually USE that. Granted, I'm a fanatic, but as a
person who plans on living off of gigs, I have to be...thrifty.
Functionality must take importance.There IS hope...in the past 20 years or so...there have been two or three
solos written for basset clarinet. As literature for the instrument
increases, and as our continual development of the instrument improves it
to where it has less problems, it may very well become a standard
instrument. But, I really don't see it happening for quite sometime.I could be wrong, though... ^_-
J. Shouryu Nohe
http://web.nmsu.edu/~jnohe
Professor of SCSM102, New Mexico State Univ.
"If I wanted a 'job,' I'd have gone music ED, thank you very much!"---------------------------------------------------------
From: NINEWINDS@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:51:51 EDT
Subject: Re: Lipped-down Bari
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comHear it and then practise. The tone is as good as the low a
---------------------------------------------------------
From: John Fierke <jfierke@media100.com>
Subject: clarinet vs saxaphone
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:21:24 -0400
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com> This is because the Clarinet is really two different instruments. The
>register key converts the horn from an Eb instrument (in the lower register)
>to a Bb instrument in the upper; just like a Double Horns 4th rotary valve
>changes the pitch of the instrument. Also like the double horn; composersAcoustically, the clarinet is cylindrical. This means that to extend the
pitch another step lower can be accomplished by taking the same diameter
tubing and making it longer - not a substantial change to the instrument.
The cylindrical air column also causes the first usable overtone to be the
twelfth, rather than the octave, shifting the pitch of the lower vs upper
registers. The octave key is NOT like a rotary valve, which actually
inserts extra tubing, changing the length of the air column. The clarinet
is NOT two different instruments, it is one instrument with specific
characteristics.The saxophone is conical, which allows the second register to be an octave
above the first. As you add extra notes to the low end of the horn, the
diameter gets larger, and LARGER, AND LARGER. This is why a bass and a
contrabass saxophone are so #%$ing huge. Takes a lot of brass to make the
bell end larger. Note the difference between a baritone with a low b-flat
vs one with a low A, and that's just one half-step.(Those of you who are picky may note that a flute has cylindrical tubing,
yet plays in octaves. That's because the flute is essentially open at both
ends, while the clarinet and sax are acoustically 'closed' by the reed at
one end. )
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:25:53 -0400
From: jim & joyce <lande@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [Contra digest]
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com>Why don't more people play the pipe organ?????
Hard to take to gigs. But then, some of you all are dragging one or two
contra instruments to gigs. I would like to play the steam organ I
heard on the riverboat in New Orleans. Basically, you could play any
gig that was within a mile of the river. If people complain, you just
tell them your other boat powers bagpipes.
@o@
[~]
jim
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:46:49 -0400
From: "farfl's house" <farfl@idirect.ca>
Subject: Re: Odd double reeds
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI've compiled a CD of reed styles from around the world, and the CD features six different taragato
recordings. $20.00 pp.
-LedermanAaron Rabushka wrote:
>I've run across the taragot in some old folkloric recordings, and also in
> some albums of klezmer (Finjan) and other Yiddish (Lex Goudsmit) songs. In
> these recordings it sounds metallic rather than wooden,closer in tone to a
> sax than to a clarinet.
---------------------------------------------------------From: CoolStu67@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:50:19 EDT
Subject: Re: Wind extensions
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comIn a message dated 4/10/99 7:16:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
greggbailey@hotmail.com writes:<<
In fact, why don't higher clarinets have this added range? All it
does is makes the instrument all the more versatile! It's interesting
that the A clarinet and Basset clarinet are the same instrument except
that the Basset has the extension. Why own an A when you can own a
Basset, which is a more versatile A???
-Gregg
>>It just isn't needed. A composer does not write a soprano clarinet part for low notes,
but for a bass clarinet, we expect it to have a nice full low range, and low Db just
doesn't cut it. So much can be done with the extended C on bass, but a low range
isn't that essential on a soprano instrument. As for the A clarinet, an A clarinet is a
soprano clarinet down a half step, therefor it should share the qualities of a Bb
clarinet. The basset clarinet has much different intentions, I suppose. Cost probably
plays a big role, also.Stuart
-Sax/Clarinet
---------------------------------------------------------From: CoolStu67@aol.com
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 00:06:27 EDT
Subject: Re: Wind extensions
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com<<
(Out of curiousity, did saxes ever have two register keys? I mean, they
use a double key mechanism like today's pro bass clarinets, so I would
guess that they had two keys way back when....)
>>Yes, they did, but not for long. They developed the single at around the turn of the
century. Sax mechanism was very simple back then, and I think everybody needs to
thank the Selmer's for coming along! :) They refined the saxophone more than any
other company. I guess that's why they are highly regarded. Well, I like mine at
least...Stuart
-Sax/Clarinet
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:47:42 -0500
From: Bonnie/Oscar <bgyoaw@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Pipe organs
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comCoolStu67@aol.com wrote:
>
> <<
> Sorry, I lost my train of thought.
> EXPENSE: organists don't HAVE to buy their own pipe organs!
> What about size and timbre are you referring to?
> -Gregg
> >>
>
> I must be confused, I was referring to church organs. They are huge! How big are
> pipe organs? Also, how do they sound compared to a church organ? I am not fond
> of the church organ's sound, too Medieval-like.Most pipe organs ARE either church or theater organs. The size and sound
are so variable. Noone would call the big Wurlitzers made for Wanamakers
in Philadelphia "medieval" Carnival maybe, but not medieval.Size? I've seen true 64 foot pipes. along with teensy weensy finger
sized ones. An organ three stories high in a cathedral twice that size.
And I have not seen that many organs.As for price, some particularly coveted organs get practice fees of
100.00 an hour or more. Not an hour a week, an hour. That adds up.
Imagine you have to rent a space every time you want to practice.--
"If a flute plays alone in the forest, is anyone really there?" Rice (U)
Thresher, circa 1971.
Bonnie---------------------------------------------------------
From: "Lownotes" <hraven@casema.net>
Subject: Re: Bass saxes? (low A extension)
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:16:17 +0200
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comI have a picture at home that shows a young Keilwerth employe with a
Keilwerth bass sax from low A to high F#. He made this instrument as his
final test for instrument designer. I don't know if it is possible to order
this instrument at Keilwerth.><<
> Does ANYBODY make a Bass with a low A? It seems silly to NOT have
> the low A, since the bass is mainly for low notes beyond the bari.
> -Gregg
>>>
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:46:02 -0400
From: RJ Carpenter <emerald1@megsinet.net>
Subject: RE: Bass saxes? (low A extension)
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comCould you possibly give this picture to Grant to post on his page for the
list to see?
Thanks
Tristan
-----Original Message--------------------------------------------------------------
[mailto:contrabass-owner@contrabass.com] On Behalf Of Lownotes
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 4:16 AM
To: contrabass@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: Bass saxes? (low A extension)I have a picture at home that shows a young
Keilwerth employe with a
Keilwerth bass sax from low A to high F#. He made this instrument as his
final test for instrument designer. I don't know if it is possible to order
this instrument at Keilwerth.Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:29:42 -0400
From: "farfl's house" <farfl@idirect.ca>
Subject: condensed
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comHow does one go about subscribing to the digest version of this list, in exchange for all of the
single messages that are being received now?
---------------------------------------------------------
From: DHuber1036@aol.com
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:32:46 EDT
Subject: Serpent "Russian Bassoon" on Ebay
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com<A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=89043335">Click
here: eBay item 89043335 (Ends 04/16/99 16:43:46 PDT) - Serpent "Russian
Bassoon", RARE! *PICS*
</A>
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:33:33 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Odd double reeds
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.com> I didn't know that there was a difference between a Heckelphone
>and an oboe. What are all the sizes in the Heckelphone family, and
>which is the main one? Why aren't they used regularly in ensembles?The Heckelphone comes in three sizes, bass in C, piccolo in F, and terz in
Eb. The bass is the most "common" size (I think there are several thousand
here and there), while there are about 12 F piccolos, and *one* Eb terz.
The F and Eb instruments are both pitched *above* the oboe, while the C
bass is an octave below the oboe. The heckelphone differs from the bass
oboe (which plays essentially the same range) in that the heckelphone bore
is much wider, and the heckelphone is played with a reed much like a
miniature bassoon reed (as opposed to the english-horn like reed of the
bass oboe). The heckelphone can have either French (Conservatoire)
keywork, or German keywork, depending on how the owner ordered it. They
aren't commonly used mainly due to rarity.> That reminds me of something else. The saxophone is a single-reed
>conical instrument, the bassoon-oboe is a doublereed conical, the
>clarinet is a single-reed cylindrical, so why isn't a doublereed
>cylindrical instrument used as a standard instrument? I know that
>there was once a cromorne or krummhorn, but they are curved. Has there
>ever been such a thing as what I'm asking about--basically a clarinet
>with a double reed?Double reed instruments with cylindrical bores include the crumhorn,
cornamuse (which is essentially a straight crumhorn), rackett, sordune,
kortholt, dudeck, and some varieties of bagpipe. Don't know why they've
died out.> Does a tarogato sound like a wooden saxophone? Again, why isn't
>this a standard instrument in ensembles?Sounds much like a soprano sax, but has a more limited range (at least, so
I understand). It is common in Hungary and that region of Europe, and is
sometimes found in Klezmer bands.> The variety of instruments available in bands and orchestras seems
>very limited compared to what it could be. If tarogatos and
>(cromornes) were added, and the entire families of instruments were
>represented (i.e. highest saxophone to lowest), ensembles could me more
>like pipe organs, and a smooth homogeneous sound could be achieved when
>desired.
> Couldn't that be neat?
> -GreggSounds good to me! P. Grainger had similar ideas, and wanted to score for
bands that had a full complement of saxophones and sarrusophones (amongst
others), for the variety of timbres.Grant
Grant Green
gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
Just filling in on sarrusophone.......
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:46:20 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: condensed
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comAt 12:29 PM 4/11/1999 -0400, you wrote:
>How does one go about subscribing to the digest version of this list,
>in exchange for all of the single messages that are being received now?Well, the easiest way is to send an email that says "Grant, would you
switch me to the digest version?" ;-)'Tis done!
Grant
Grant Green
gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
Just filling in on sarrusophone.......
---------------------------------------------------------Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:39:26 -0400
From: Bob Thomas <thomas@usit.net>
Subject: RE: Bass saxes? (low A extension)
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comhi
I haven't really been keeping up with this thread, but I don't
think anyone has mentioned using a cone in the bell. The one I
made from heavy paper works great.
Of course, you can have either a low Bb or a low A but not both
in one passage. But then I don't often see those two notes in
one passage. If I'm playing tuba parts, I mark the music where
I need to insert or remove the cone. If I'm playing with my
string band, the cone just stays in the bell.
However, since seeing Vinnie Golia's post about lipping down to
the A, I intend to spend some time working on that.
Sounds awful so far... 8^)
b.folks have written:
>> Does ANYBODY make a Bass with a low A? It seems silly to NOT have
>> the low A, since the bass is mainly for low notes beyond the bari. &
>>This is something I'm curious about as well. It does seem strange
>>not to put the extension. I've asked Dr. Paul Cohen about this
>>(also about a contrabass with low A), and his answer is the same---
>>it would be pointless. Although I do not particularly agree with this,
>>until clinicians and doctors start to think our way, we are left with
>>paying ORSI to make it, or by stuffing a size 22 foot in the bell.
>>Let's all start petitioning LA Sax...
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:18:59 -0400
From: "Gerald E. Corey" <jerrylv@magi.com>
Subject: Re: Odd double reeds
Reply-To: contrabass@contrabass.comHello all at Contrabass.com - I would like to commend Grant Green for
his excellent description of the Heckelphone family of instruments. I
luckily have a Heckelphone (bass - in C) on loan from the school where I
teach. The current price of a new one in Beibrich, Wiesbaden Germany is
$20,000.00 U.S. The one which I play does sound wonderful with a smaller
bassoon reed (reamed much larger in diameter at the butt end, so as to
fit on the Heckelphone bocal which is thicker at its end than a bassoon
bocal is).
As for the Taragato, I have seen two of them on sale (years ago) at
Ted's Music Shop in Baltimore, Maryland. They are elegant looking
instruments and definitely saxophone-looking (straight variety) in
apperance. They are the second national folk instrument of Roumania (not
generically Hungarian, though many may be played in that country as
well) along with the more impressively beautiful "nai" or pan pipes. The
taragato does well as a solo instrument in many of the "three speed"
(slow - medium fast - lickety split) Roumanian folk songs/dances, and I
have two vinyl disc recordings from Roumania with a few Taragato solos.
They also have been used as battle instruments in war situations (19th
c. ?) in Roumania, and the sound can be quite fierce when used for this
purpose - a bit similar in effect to the bagpipes when played in battle
situations by the Scottish. Sincerely yours, Gerald Corey, Ottawa
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