Contrabass Digest
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1998-09-15

 
list                           Tue, 15 Sep 1998           Volume 1 : Number 89

In this issue:
 

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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:59:41 -0600 (MDT)
From: Shouryu Nohe <jnohe@nmsu.edu>
To: Contrabass-list <list@contrabass.com>
Subject: Replies to Stuart and Greg

Concerning Inferior horns:

No one ever said that having a Low C bass made you a better player - that
was never the case.  The questiion address the necessity of a low C
instrument in today's wind ensembles, and I stand firm on my statement
that they are indeed a necessity!  Composers write for it CONSTANTLY now.
I have encountered a total of fourteen separate pieces in the past five
semesters (including this one) that call for notes below the standard Eb
in wind ensemble repertiore.  I also encountered at least that many pieces
with such notes during my four years as a bassist in high school.  It
doesn't make you a better player; that's obvious.  But it DOES restrict
your ability to play all available literature as the composer intended.

It was never a case of Ebs being inferior, or the playing being inferior,
but if a Low C is necessary.  And the answer is YES!  The experience I've
had, the experiences my fellow bassists from the El Paso Symphony, the Las
Cruces, Alamogordo, and El Paso Community Bands, and other students and
players I've spoken with from everywhere (gotta love the 'net) have told
me that they are seeing more and more contra register notes.  If you plan
on playing these days, you need to get an extended bass - the band
repertiore is just too full of it now.

J. Shouryu Nohe
http://web.nmsu.edu/~jnohe
Professor of SCSM102, New Mexico State Univ.
--------------------------------------------------------------
"We will not tolerate failure!" - Lorenz Kiel
"Failure?  If we fail, it will result in the extinction of the entire
  human race." - Fuyutsuki Kozo

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:07:17 -0600 (MDT)
From: Shouryu Nohe <jnohe@nmsu.edu>
To: Contrabass-list <list@contrabass.com>
Subject: The reply to Gregg that was supposed to be in the last post

Gregg - a way to facilitate ease in playing the altissimo register on the
contra instruments is to use the lower register valve instead of the upper
one (this only works on the wood Selmers and metal Leblancs, and any other
contra you encounter with a split register mechanism).  The way to do this
is to drop the R3 finger down on D3 and higher (I've never had to use it
on C#3).  Then finger all the altissimo notes as you would on Bb
clarinet, except with the added R3 finger.
If you've a good contra and can do some moderate lipping (between 5-25
cents), your altissimo should speak quite nicely this way.  It's always
worked for me - our bassist in WW Choir last year was rather new (as in,
never played it before) to the instrument, and couldn't play the clarion
register very well.  I played all his parts (in the correct register)
until he learned to play them himself using this method - all the way up
to C4!

J. Shouryu Nohe
http://web.nmsu.edu/~jnohe
Professor of SCSM102, New Mexico State Univ.
--------------------------------------------------------------
"You have a thing about Shinji, alright..." - Suzuhara Toji
"I...maybe that is true." - Rei
"You do."

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:12:51 -0400
From: "RJ Carpenter" <emerald1@megsinet.net>
To: <list@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Low-C Bass Clarinet

Strange; my YTS-23 is a piece of dunk that even the most experienced players
can't make to sound good....   Also; upper register quality on lower priced
bass clarinets is often quite poor; due to the bore configuration (made to
make proper lower register tone production simple for beginners) and
inferior workmanship.  And, In my experience; the worst bass I ever played
was a Yamaha!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tristan Carpenter- Clarinetist, Saxophonist, and Bassist.
emerald1@megsinet.net
www.geocities.com/bourbonstreet/bayou/2048
"...music is the voice of the soul."
"Cleanliness is subjective; Godliness is apparent..."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:57:38 -0400
From: ROBERT HOWE <arehow@vgernet.net>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: list V1 #88, crummy instruments

The several folks who shared anecdotes of success with crummy
instruments are all congratulated on their skills.  I, too, made All
State on a LOUSY oboe (Connecticut, in 1972, a bottom of the line
Linton).  I did it a year later on a Loree, too, with much greater ease.

Remember that a SIMPLE horn--one with fewer bells and whistles--is not
of necessity a LOUSY horn--one that plays badly.

You can make a lousy horn play well, with effort.  You can also dig
ditches with a spoon.  In either case, the effort spent overcoming the
limits of your tool could be better spent making a better result.  I
will happily spend another dollor for a better reed, Saxophone, scalpel,
computer or whatever, knowing that I can do my work with less effort on
such equipment, and thus do a better job.  Would I be better off working
hard to make low B speak (on oboe or Sax)--or enjoying an easy low B,
and playing it as soft and easy as the composer wished?

Buy the best instrument you can afford, even if you can't afford it.
The extra expense will amortize itself over many years; the extra
expressiveness and joy of playing will always be thine.

Robert Howe

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:06:27 EDT
From: Opusnandy@aol.com
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re:  list V1 #88

For a fantastic article on the production of the altissimo register on
contrabass clarinets, find volume 18 no. 3 of the periodical "The Clarinet"
(May/June, 1991), pg. 30-31 for the article "Altissimo Register Fingerings for
the Contrabass Clarinet" by Terje Lerstad.  Check your local library or the
music library of the nearest university.  It takes you higher (written) than a
Bb clarinet usually goes!

Jon Carreira

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:16:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jean Adler <jean@espressocom.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: contrabass clari altissimo?!?!?!?

Gregg,
Best of luck in whatever you decide.  Do you know what pieces will be
played in the concert.  You may find the pieces to be a bit on the dull
side for contras.  They don't necessarily play the same parts as bass
clarinets.  I have had ocassion to play contra alto and was bored with it.

Secondly, I would never recommend lying an instrument down. You risk
bending keys, not to mention the condensation issue.  My husband owns a
machine shop and cusotm built me a stand for my bass which I have also
used when I play contra bassoon.  Is there any budget at your school for
making a stand for the instrument(s)?   Perhaps you have a metal shop at
your school which could take on the project.  It is worth looking into.
Most commercial stands are flimsy and horribly expensive...and I doubt you
can buy one for either instrument!

What is your reason for playing a different instrument this year?  Or are
you only allowed in All State one year?  I don't think you should consider
skipping notes when auditioning.  Do the instruments need repair?

Just don't do what I do.  After 2 years of being 1st chair I got cocky my
last year and barely practiced and sat 4th chair.  Very stupid move on my
part.

Again...lots of luck,
Jean

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:18:29 EDT
From: LeliaLoban@aol.com
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: bass sax hiss

My bass sax (1926 Conn) hisses inside the top U-joint, where the "drainpipe"
drops down to the neck, on the notes from top-of-the-staff G down to the next
D.  The hiss sounds like the steam valve on a pressure cooker.  Otherwise,
these notes sound fine, without any of the problems characteristic of leaky
pads, bad reed, etc..  (This sax was reconditioned with new pads recently.
Changing the reed does not affect the hiss.)  Is this noise common on bass
saxes?  Until recently I was on such a steep learning curve that the hiss was
the least of my worries, but now it's starting to bug me.

Two possibilities come to mind:

  1. ) The sax will explode soon.
  2. )  Demonic possession.  The demon hates my playing.


Short of killing a chicken, can I do anything to exorcise this noise without
spoiling the tone of the sax?

Lelia

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:53:36 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: contrabass clari altissimo?!?!?!?

At 06:27 PM 9/14/98 CDT, Gregg wrote:
>contra-altos (contraltos?) and contrabasses are grouped together.  This
>year's tryout music calls for many altissimo notes, all the way up to
>G!!!  I have no idea how to finger altissimo notes on a contra.  I'm
>assuming altissimo notes do exist for contras, and I'd like to "blow
>them away" with playing the notes as written.  Even if altissimo notes
>on contras are possible, I'm sure that most contra players won't play
>those notes--I honestly don't know what us contra players are expected
>to do----take them down an octave?

My *guess* is that if you play them down an octave, you'll be fine, and
that if you play them *well* as written, you'll impress the judges.
Probably better to play them well an octave lower, than to play them poorly
as written.

I have a clarinet book at home that includes altissimo fingerings for EEb
contra: I'll try and remember to look it up.

>       I have access to 2 Bb contrabasses, both metal and Leblanc.  One is the
>paperclip style, but with 2 different regester keys and range to only
>low D.  The other is the straight model, but of course has only the one
>regester key.  I prefer sitting in a chair to play a contra, but I don't
>think I want to mess with the 2 seperate regester keys on the paperclip
>model.  So, I guess I'll just try out standing up with the straight
>model.

The 2-key problem isn't so bad.  You use the lower octave key only for Bb
(the throat Bb) through Eb (4th space), *and for the altissimo notes.*
Above high C#, it is easier to play the altissimo notes with LH1 down,
while using the lower octave key.  Might be worth a bit of practice....

>       I would think that if any given piece of band music calls for a
>contra-alto, it definitely calls for a contrabass.  Is this the case???

Nope.  I routinely encounter arrangements that include Eb but not Bb
contra.  However, it is usually not difficult to transpose an Eb part to
play on Bb contra, especially if you're used to bari sax:  the notes are
fingered about the same.  For example, if the written note on the Eb part
is E (fingered LH123-RH12 on bari), the note transposed for Bb is A
(LH123-RH12).  After a while, you can do it automatically, without thinking.

>would just play contrabass anyway.  Having to mess with a contrabass AND
>another instrument is SOOOOO difficult, because I refuse to lay the
>contrabass down on the floor.  Last year in the school band, we played

There *are* stands for these behemoths.  I use a stand made by Leblanc,
specifically designed for the "paperclip" model contras (it adjusts to fit
either one).  The stand is very sturdy, has a wide tripod base, and may
actually weigh more than the instrument.  I think I have a picture of it
somewhere on my website...  You can order it through the Woodwind &
Brasswind, and have it shipped directly from Leblanc in Kenosha WI.

I also now have a straight Eb contra (Buescher), and use a regular bass
clarinet stand.  It is still a struggle to bring both instruments (the Eb
case is longer than the Bb case), both stands, and music, but once the
cases are out of the way I don't use any more room than the tuba or string
bass.

>let me touch it; I had to play a 340 Leblanc instead.  That one is such
>that the bell will go on only one way:  pointing forward.  So why is it
>that all pictures I see of those have the bell pointing backwards??????
>I don't understand how that's even possible.  They're not low D models,
>because the bell goes all the way up.  Speaking of, the bell on the one
>at band camp was very wabbly; is it supposed to be?  It made it very
>insecure to play.

The pictures I've seen all have the bell pointing forward:  the bell on
mine can be rotated in just about any direction, but I generally point it
forward, or slightly toward the audience (typically on my left).  The bell
should not be loose.

Enjoy!

Grant
 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant D. Green                  gdgreen@contrabass.com
www.contrabass.com     Just filling in on sarrusophone
Contrabass email list:             list@contrabass.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:20:15 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: bass sax hiss

At 04:18 PM 9/15/98 EDT, you wrote:
>My bass sax (1926 Conn) hisses inside the top U-joint, where the "drainpipe"
>drops down to the neck, on the notes from top-of-the-staff G down to the next
>D.  The hiss sounds like the steam valve on a pressure cooker.  Otherwise,
>these notes sound fine, without any of the problems characteristic of leaky
>pads, bad reed, etc..  (This sax was reconditioned with new pads recently.
>Changing the reed does not affect the hiss.)  Is this noise common on bass
>saxes?  Until recently I was on such a steep learning curve that the hiss was
>the least of my worries, but now it's starting to bug me.

Sounds like it might be your octave key: the sax has two octave vents, one
of which opens for notes from d to g#, and another for notes above g#.  I
don't know if there's a way to fix it without impairing the function of the
octave key.  Any pros care to comment?

Grant
 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant D. Green                  gdgreen@contrabass.com
www.contrabass.com     Just filling in on sarrusophone
Contrabass email list:             list@contrabass.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:54:56 PDT
From: "Bret Newton" <jbnbsn99@hotmail.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject:

Greg,
      At state how many contrabassoons were there?  I am looking at the
prospect of trying out next year.
Bret

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:34:21 -0500
From: Matthew Hanson <mchanson@infohwy.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: bass sax hiss

Grant Green wrote:
> At 04:18 PM 9/15/98 EDT, you wrote:
> >My bass sax (1926 Conn) hisses inside the top U-joint, where the "drainpipe"
> >drops down to the neck, on the notes from top-of-the-staff G down to the next
> >D.  The hiss sounds like the steam valve on a pressure cooker.  Otherwise,
> >these notes sound fine, without any of the problems characteristic of leaky
> >pads, bad reed, etc..  (This sax was reconditioned with new pads recently.
> >Changing the reed does not affect the hiss.)  Is this noise common on bass
> >saxes?  Until recently I was on such a steep learning curve that the hiss was
> >the least of my worries, but now it's starting to bug me.
>
> Sounds like it might be your octave key: the sax has two octave vents, one
> of which opens for notes from d to g#, and another for notes above g#.  I
> don't know if there's a way to fix it without impairing the function of the
> octave key.  Any pros care to comment?

Sounds like your lower octave key is not opening far enough.  Usually
this problem is with the upper (neck) octave key, but on the lower
saxes, it seems the lower octave is very prone to act up -at least this
has been my observation from the repair side.
To test the instrument to check for this problem, you may need an extra
person, unless you can wedge the lower octave fully open while playing D
up to G#. Then play up to C (with the lower octave closed) and listen
for a difference in hissiness. Is that a word?  :)
The lower octave rocker may need more spring tension, re-oiling, or
repair.
Good luck, and hope this helps,
Matthew Hanson

PS- Does this old bass have manual or automatic octave keys?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:52:48 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)
From: Frank D Diaz <Frank.D.Diaz@wdc.com>
To: list@contrabass.com,
Subject: RE: Re: bass sax hiss

Lelia and Grant, I recently repaired a 1904 Conn Bass sax that had the same problem. (It
had a manual octave key converted over to automatic). For that matter, I think every Bass
that I've ever worked on had this problem. If I remember correctly, Lee Patrick addressed
this issue in "Saxohone Journal" several years ago.  It really has to do with the
placement of the octave holes.

If you play middle D (all 6 down plus octave), I bet it hisses more than the E above it.
Does F hiss the least ? In my experience it does. With the upper octave key I bet A hisses
more than B. I've tried playing these notes with the octave keys removed and the hiss is
still there although the hiss is noticibly louder when there is a pad over the octave pip.
As you probably know, the 2 octave hole positions are a compromise to get all of the notes
to play as close to in tune as possible. Ideally each note would have its own octave hole,
but this isn't practical.

I agree with Matthew Hansen's reply. Check how high the keys are opening and make sure
everything is operating correctly. There's a limit to how high the key can open and still
stay in adjustment, though. Other than the adjustment issue, the hiss may be caused by the
compromise in the hole positions. There's not much you can do about this. The reason the F
may sound the best is because the compromise position is closest to the ideal position for
this note. I have heard of people having the lower hole relocated and the keywork adjusted
accordingly. Does anyone know about this?

Frank Diaz
------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:52:53 -0700
From: "Guy Mallery" <wa2msu@pacbell.net>
To: <list@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: list V1 #84

 Stephen Del Rea <srea@uaex.edu> writes:
 

>reach for those right-hand notes.  (Speaking of high school
>hijinks, did anyone else ever put wheels on the end of your
>instrument case and pull it behind you on your bicycle?!)

Howdy y'all,

   Sorry, I just can't let this one slip by. (!)  Does anyone have
any experience with a bugger(-like a Burley trailer), or a
smaller (Beast of Burden or BOB) trailer they might like to
share?  Even anecdotal replies may be directed to me
(privately).

   Regards,
   Guy
   http://home.pacbell.net/wa2msu
 

------------------------------

End of list V1 #89
******************

 
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