Contrabass Digest
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email gdgreen@contrabass.com

 
 

1998-07-15

 
list                           Wed, 15 Jul 1998           Volume 1 : Number 31

In this issue:
 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:42:00 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: Leblanc Contrabass clarinet intonation

At 01:51 PM 7/14/98 -0500, Matthew Hanson wrote:
>For those of you who own older Leblanc BBb contras with the long tuning
>sleeve, how many have altered the length of the sleeve by having it cut
>so that it brings the pitch up and makes the base of the sleeve actually
>meet the tenon? This may sound confusing, but my personal instrument,
>#571, a satin silver to low D is REALLY low with all mouthpieces.
>I have been aware that the instruments made around the time of this one
>all had the long tuning slide/sleeve, so what does everyone else do?
>I'm really curious since the modern sleeve is much shorter and fits
>completely in the tenon.
>thanks in advance for your comments,
>Matthew Hanson
>http://www.infohwy.com/~bkburks/mch/music_m.htm

I used to have a satin-finish BBb contra to low D: my recollection is that
the slide fit all the way into the receiver.  Serial No. about 150.  It
played pretty well in tune when I took it to rehearsal.  Robert, how is it
behaving for you?

Grant
 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant D. Green                  gdgreen@contrabass.com
www.contrabass.com     Just filling in on sarrusophone
Contrabass email list:             list@contrabass.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:25:47 -0400
From: "RJ Carpenter" <emerald1@megsinet.net>
To: <list@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: Bass Taragottas

I don't know as to wether there are any bass taragottas; but I imagine they
would be quite impractical.  Am I correct that taragottas have a bore like a
saxophone; but a wooden body like a clarinet...  If so; the considering the
fact that a bass saxophone weighs 30 pounds; then a bass taragotta would
probably weigh 130!!!  Also; how could you fold an instrument that was made
out of wood and had a bore that size!!!???  Just some questions and
comments...
Thanks,
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tristan Carpenter- Clarinetist, Saxophonist, and Bassist.
emerald1@megsinet.net
www.geocities.com/bourbonstreet/bayou/2048
"...music is the voice of the soul."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:41:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Holtin <blonde070@yahoo.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: What Key?

This is the first time for me to post anything on the Contrabass List.
 I'm a high school tubist and am planning to be a music major.
Therefore, I have done a small amount of asking questions and happen
to know something about this one.  "What determines the key of an
instrument?"  The correct answer is (for brass instruments which I
know most about) the lowest note played with out the use of keys;
however, it does not apply to some (i.e. trombones).  As a tubist, I
know that the difference in key for tubas is not just the lowest note
played without any keys, but it is also the bore of the instrument.
Most tubas will be in the same key but have different bore sizes, but
that feature is used between intermediate and professional models.  I
use an intermediate model with a smaller bore that helps to provide a
sense of pitch and intonation for young players, but the smaller the
bore, the higher the key, and the larger the bore, the lower the key.
If I am incorrect, I would appreciate the expertise of someone who can
verify or correct my statement.  But as for woodwinds, I have no clue.

--Brian
   briandawg29@yahoo.com
   tubist & music major
 

==
...the name's Blonde, James Blonde.  Have a Nice Day!!
(James Bond Rulz!!!)
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:06:32 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: What Key?

Welcome aboard, Brian!

At 06:41 PM 7/14/98 -0700, you wrote:
>however, it does not apply to some (i.e. trombones).  As a tubist, I
>know that the difference in key for tubas is not just the lowest note
>played without any keys, but it is also the bore of the instrument.
>Most tubas will be in the same key but have different bore sizes, but
>that feature is used between intermediate and professional models.  I
>use an intermediate model with a smaller bore that helps to provide a
>sense of pitch and intonation for young players, but the smaller the
>bore, the higher the key, and the larger the bore, the lower the key.

My understanding is that tubas come in F, Eb (bass tubas), CC and BBb
(contrabass tubas), in addition to tenor tuba and euphonium sizes.  The
pitch of the instrument is determined almost entirely by the length of the
bore, while the width of the bore affects the timbre (and to some extent
the volume available): wider bore = more fundamental.  A smaller bore
provides more sound in the higher harmonics, which can make it easier to
determine the pitch you're playing, especially if you're not used to the
subterranian register.  The difference in bore size (along with bell size
and flare) is approximated by the designations "3/4", "4/4", "5/4", etc.,
with larger numbers indicating larger bore diameters.

Grant

Grant Green
gdgreen@contrabass.com
http://www.contrabass.com
Just filling in on sarrusophone.......

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:10:30 -0500
From: Matthew Hanson <mchanson@infohwy.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: Leblanc Contrabass clarinet intonation

Grant Green wrote:
> At 01:51 PM 7/14/98 -0500, Matthew Hanson wrote:
> >For those of you who own older Leblanc BBb contras with the long tuning
> >sleeve, how many have altered the length of the sleeve by having it cut
> >so that it brings the pitch up and makes the base of the sleeve actually
> >meet the tenon? This may sound confusing, but my personal instrument,
> >#571, a satin silver to low D is REALLY low with all mouthpieces.
> >I have been aware that the instruments made around the time of this one
> >all had the long tuning slide/sleeve, so what does everyone else do?
> >I'm really curious since the modern sleeve is much shorter and fits
> >completely in the tenon.
> >thanks in advance for your comments,
> >Matthew Hanson
> >http://www.infohwy.com/~bkburks/mch/music_m.htm
>
> I used to have a satin-finish BBb contra to low D: my recollection is that
> the slide fit all the way into the receiver.  Serial No. about 150.  It
> played pretty well in tune when I took it to rehearsal.  Robert, how is it
> behaving for you?
>
> Grant

Was this instrument a double register keyed horn?
Matt

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:15:36 -0200
From: timjt@awod.com (Timothy Tikker)
To: <list@contrabass.com>
Subject: Re: list V1 #30 -- taragatos

Grant asks is taragatos were ever made in sizes larger than a C or Bb soprano.

Yes:  I've seen a photograph of an Eb alto.  Robert Moore, oboe/saxophone
faculty at the University of Oregon, Eugene, did a research trip to Hungary
to investigate taragatos, and played that alto, which photo I saw.

Actually, the instrument was for sale, but the price of $10,000 seemed a
bit steep to Bob...!

- Tim Tikker

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:03:06 -0400
From: mgrogg@juno.com
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: What Key?

Sadly you are very incorrect.  The key for a tuba, or trombone or any
other brass  instrument is determined by the length of the tube, and by
the magic of physics, that determines the "fundimental" pitch of that
tube.  The diameter of the tube, the number of keys on ophelclides, or
the number of valves on tubas have no bearing on the fundimental of the
open tube.

The size factor tuba players seem to worry about takes into account
bore, and overall size is the 3/4-4/4-5/4-6/4 size guessing game.  There
is a lot of discussion as of late on the Tuba/Euphonium list on this
topic.  It makes little difference except to the egos of the owners of
the larger and smaller instruments.

AS for the length, a BBb tuba/Susyphone will be approx 18 feet.  A CC
tuba is about 16.
F and Eb tubas are corespondingly shorter.  A trombone, Euphonium, and
the Bb side of the French horn are all 9 feet.  The F side of the French
horn and the F tuba are both about 12 feet.

The fundimental pitch depends on the physics of an open cylinder, even in
the case of so called Conical instruments like tubas and cornets.  (which
in reality have a lot of cylidrical tubing)

Woodwinds are another can of worms, the keys are figured out by the sound
actually produced when the keys for a written C are held down.
Saxophones and Clarinets have additional keys that allow them too decend
below the written C, usually a written Bb or sometimes A in the case of
saxs, even farther on clarinets.  Also the physics of woodwinds are
different.  Clarinets work on the properties of a stopped cylinder, where
as Saxophones work on the acoustics of a cone.

A good book that explains this in much beter detail is: "Music, Physics
and Engineering" by Harry F. Olson.  Look for it at your better stocked
library, or order it from Dover Books.
 

Michael Grogg
Tubist, Summit Orchestra & Summit Brass Quintet.

>This is the first time for me to post anything on the Contrabass List.
> I'm a high school tubist and am planning to be a music major.
>Therefore, I have done a small amount of asking questions and happen
>to know something about this one.  "What determines the key of an
>instrument?"  The correct answer is (for brass instruments which I
>know most about) the lowest note played with out the use of keys;
>however, it does not apply to some (i.e. trombones).  As a tubist, I
>know that the difference in key for tubas is not just the lowest note
>played without any keys, but it is also the bore of the instrument.
>Most tubas will be in the same key but have different bore sizes, but
>that feature is used between intermediate and professional models.  I
>use an intermediate model with a smaller bore that helps to provide a
>sense of pitch and intonation for young players, but the smaller the
>bore, the higher the key, and the larger the bore, the lower the key.
>If I am incorrect, I would appreciate the expertise of someone who can
>verify or correct my statement.  But as for woodwinds, I have no clue.
>--Brian
>   briandawg29@yahoo.com
>   tubist & music major
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:00:35 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
To: list@contrabass.com
Subject: Re: Leblanc Contrabass clarinet intonation

At 10:10 PM 7/14/98 -0500, Matt wrote:
>> I used to have a satin-finish BBb contra to low D: my recollection is that
>> the slide fit all the way into the receiver.  Serial No. about 150.  It
>> played pretty well in tune when I took it to rehearsal.  Robert, how is it
>> behaving for you?
>>
>> Grant
>
>Was this instrument a double register keyed horn?
>Matt

Yes: still is, last I heard... ;-)  Now that we've had a discussion on use
of the "lower" octave key for altissimo, I almost wish I had it back just
to experiment with.  Perhaps Robert (or anyone else who has one of these
venerable leviathans) would care to try it and mention their results?  The
idea is to play in the altissimo register (above written high C) using
normal soprano clarinet fingerings, except with LH1 down and using the
"low" octave key instead of the high octave key.

Grant
 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant D. Green                  gdgreen@contrabass.com
www.contrabass.com     Just filling in on sarrusophone
Contrabass email list:             list@contrabass.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:03:13 -0700
From: Grant Green <gdgreen@contrabass.com>
To: list@contrabass.com,Partnerlwz@aol.com
Subject: Re: contrabass-list V1 #34

At 01:08 PM 11/16/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Grant, I enjoyed your website and I'm a subscriber to your list.  I am an
>oboe player but work with all of the family including the heckelphone.  (i
>recently performed giovanni daelli's variations on a theme from rigoletto
>which was a success)  Paul winters cd is fantastic but there is also a work
>you forgot.  it's called The Purcell Consort; Now we make merth.  it's very
>good as well.  No one has E-mailed me yet and i want to talk to others who
>are players of oboe family relatives.
>
>looking foward to hear from you
>thanks, chip zoller

Looking back through my email in a rare, spare moment, it doesn't look like
anyone ever responded.  My apologies!

I'd like to hear more about your heckelphone work, and if you have any
observations regarding the difference between the heckelphone and
bass/baritone oboe.  Have you ever run across an oboe-form lower than bass
oboe/heckelphone?  Jack Silver (if I remember right) has a consort of oboes
that includes a "great bass" in F, an octave below the cor anglais (please
correct me if I'm wrong).

Grant

BTW, which Paul Winter album has the Purcell?  I haven't noticed it on any
of the CDs in print: do I need to dig the old vinyl out of the attic?

GDG
 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grant D. Green                  gdgreen@contrabass.com
www.contrabass.com     Just filling in on sarrusophone
Contrabass email list:             list@contrabass.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

End of list V1 #31
******************

 
Next Digest ->
Previous Digest <-
Index
Top